PSA: Ditch your API test kit

[brandon429]

Aaron, worlds simplest testless cycle for you:


buy Dr Tims live nitrifying bacteria or Fritz 900

add whichever one into your tank with two small pinches of fish food ground into powder then put in

not liquid ammonia, fish food


let stew for ten days among new rocks, you’re cycled and can’t not be. No test matters, this is certain testless cycling. Any fish you add after day ten lives, relative to your disease and care preps of course. Ammonia control is guaranteed by that date. Do a big water change to start with clean water vs fish food water where it rotted with no fish to eat it


thats one of two ways to testless cycle any reef

 

[Aaron75]

Aaron, worlds simplest testless cycle for you:


buy Dr Tims live nitrifying bacteria or Fritz 900

add whichever one into your tank with two small pinches of fish food ground into powder then put in

not liquid ammonia, fish food


let stew for ten days among new rocks, you’re cycled and can’t not be. No test matters, this is certain testless cycling. Any fish you add after day ten lives, relative to your disease and care preps of course. Ammonia control is guaranteed by that date. Do a big water change to start with clean water vs fish food water where it rotted with no fish to eat it


thats one of two ways to testless cycle any reef

I was going to do this, but use a shrimp to create ammonia. I'm mainly going to be doing the testing just because I want to watch the process, I want the visual part of it. Just how I am.

 

[brandon429]

You will be watching testing that is wildly, wildly off base from truth and any seneye meter though


dont study the wrong timelines, get a seneye. The time it takes api and Red Sea to register up and down changes in ammonia, when you add some vs when it goes away, ranges wildly in non digital kits to the point they’re usually average 10-15 days too slow.

 

[brandon429]

Api cycle: takes ten-thirty days see any api cycling post


then see any seneye post, who cycled like the api posts

(everyone does bottle bac on dry rocks or they do live rocks transfer cycles, this is 99% of all cycles posted)


ready day one, ammonia was in spec day one, not day 28


I have never seen one seneye that was calibrated take more than one day to show ammonia control


and I’ve never seen one api +2ppm cycle agree the tank was ready by day ten…see that stark disparity in truth + measure

 

[Aaron75]

You will be watching testing that is wildly, wildly off base from truth and any seneye meter though


dont study the wrong timelines, get a seneye. The time it takes api and Red Sea to register up and down changes in ammonia, when you add some vs when it goes away, ranges wildly in non digital kits to the point they’re usually average 10-15 days too slow.

Why would any titration show ammonia when there isn't any? Where would the chemical reaction come from? And how would a digital test eliminate that?

 

[HBtank]

Never had issues with API other than the stupid leaky caps. Also never really used them for anything I expected exact values for (like typically titration tests etc).

 

[MnFish1]

I still have api kits around and use them when I don’t agree with the other test results.
Especially nitrate . It’s easy. I’ve memorized the test step by step and have used it for too many years not to trust it .

that being said I do find salifert easier to tell the difference between colours

Unfortunately - I find them extremely difficult to see the colors - it's probably my eyes.

 

[MnFish1]

Why would any titration show ammonia when there isn't any? Where would the chemical reaction come from? And how would a digital test eliminate that?

Because - if you look at the directions for the API ammonia test kit, for example - if the color is not quite yellow - but it's a little green - the reading Is 'zero'. Not .125 or .25. Likewise - if the color is greenish - but not quite 0.25. it's .25 - not .125 or somewhere in-between. It's the design of the test. As you said - as a titration test - its not like you're using a pipette - you're using a plastic bottle dropper - and if you hold the bottle at a different angle you can get smaller or larger drops, etc etc etc. With API - it's all about exactly following the directions - including 'shake 30 seconds' . Not 45, not 15 - 30. This is at least my experience.

 

[MnFish1]

Api cycle: takes ten-thirty days see any api cycling post


then see any seneye post, who cycled like the api posts

(everyone does bottle bac on dry rocks or they do live rocks transfer cycles, this is 99% of all cycles posted)


ready day one, ammonia was in spec day one, not day 28


I have never seen one seneye that was calibrated take more than one day to show ammonia control


and I’ve never seen one api +2ppm cycle agree the tank was ready by day ten…see that stark disparity in truth + measure

I disagree with this. It does not take 10-30 days for an API test. I just set up a 72 gallon tank with 7 small koi yesterday - using bottled bacteria - the Ammonia has always been '0' with the API test - and the seachem alert is also zero. There is no magic - it's chemistry. The Seneye has its own set of problems - and before relying on one of those - I would rely on your other post - saying 'just put bacteria and stuff in - and in 10 days it's cycled'. Of course - IMHO - this is irresponsible - because again just my opinion you're right 95/100 times you will be right the 5 times you're wrong - its a big problem.

 

[Aaron75]

Because - if you look at the directions for the API ammonia test kit, for example - if the color is not quite yellow - but it's a little green - the reading Is 'zero'. Not .125 or .25. Likewise - if the color is greenish - but not quite 0.25. it's .25 - not .125 or somewhere in-between. It's the design of the test. As you said - as a titration test - its not like you're using a pipette - you're using a plastic bottle dropper - and if you hold the bottle at a different angle you can get smaller or larger drops, etc etc etc. With API - it's all about exactly following the directions - including 'shake 30 seconds' . Not 45, not 15 - 30. This is at least my experience.

Isn't that what has been debated this entire thread though, with a large group saying all these hobby grade tests are as accurate or inaccurate as we make them? I feel I can perform a test and interpret the numbers pretty well, I have used API before. But that was a much different scenario. My question was largely in part to the claim that the test will some how be a whole month behind a digital reading.

 

[Aaron75]

Isn't that what has been debated this entire thread though, with a large group saying all these hobby grade tests are as accurate or inaccurate as we make them? I feel I can perform a test and interpret the numbers pretty well, I have used API before. But that was a much different scenario. My question was largely in part to the claim that the test will some how be a whole month behind a digital reading.

Just looking up the Seneye and instantly seeing a 3 star 50ish% review rate gives me qualms.

 

[brandon429]

No problem. They rate my cable company as 1.4 stars and I've been with em ten years as a customer/ no issue. Happy folks don't rate as often, I've no need to

What I do differently is pay bill + keep router off the floor... ratings on cycling science have no bearing on someone taking time to read seneye threads and see tank pics, dates, and readout levels from bottle bac cycles using feed.

The liquid ammonia approach is better for your goal, a shrimp sometimes does not register a change at all on api and yet the cycle completes just fine


Or maybe it pegs at 7ppm for three straight weeks, we get that wild stuff from api and not seneye. Do a lookup on seneye using reef tanks, see if things look inaccurate.

It won't matter how you test, in the above arrangement it'll be ready. It's harmless to test any way you'd like to, you have a known completion date on hand now to benchmark any test used for accuracy.

The total length of time it takes a shrimp to degrade and api to hopefully spike then drop to zero is 2-3 weeks past the actual ready date for all the cycling bac. Fish food is faster, better, because you're grinding it and increasing surface area for quicker decomp

a shrimp still works. Anything beyond ten days wait is just watching random things a test kit might read.

 

[MnFish1]

Api is pretty accurate. just gives a small range, and when you not keeping expert corals, it should be fine using it.

There are a lot of people out there keeping 'expert corals' - and failing - because they are chasing supposed changes in alkalinity or Ca or whatever - i.e. one day the alkalinity is 8.3 the next its 8.5, etc etc

 

[MnFish1]

Isn't that what has been debated this entire thread though, with a large group saying all these hobby grade tests are as accurate or inaccurate as we make them? I feel I can perform a test and interpret the numbers pretty well, I have used API before. But that was a much different scenario. My question was largely in part to the claim that the test will some how be a whole month behind a digital reading.

I have cycled maybe 30 tanks - until I did my experiments (using API) - I never tested ammonia - I followed the instructions on the bottled bacteria - or had live rock that I was moving from tank to tank. It might have been irresponsible - but - I had enough experience to know how to do it. I agree with your point though - mine is there is no such thing as a perfect test for everyone.

 

[Rmckoy]

Unfortunately - I find them extremely difficult to see the colors - it's probably my eyes.

Which one do you find harder to see ?
It’s a proven fact , once we get above 35 our eyes change

Even with perfect 20/20 vision I still need magnifying specs for small details

 

[MnFish1]

Which one do you find harder to see ?
It’s a proven fact , once we get above 35 our eyes change

Even with perfect 20/20 vision I still need magnifying specs for small details

The colors - in general - I go back and forth with many of them. I do not like the reagent situation with Hanna per se - where it seems like it's difficult to get the exact amount in the vial. It is also my opinion that people over-test in general and over-rely on the numbers, in general. Thus if the API test says my alkalinity falls between 8 and 9 - every week - or 2 - thats good enough for me, etc.

 

[WVNed]

I fail to understand the idea that an API test will make one of the colors on the card exactly and you must match it.
It will make a color and you need to decide where on the spectrum of all possible colors it falls and then use the card to interpolate what it means.
You dont need to know an exact value to keep a reef tank. You have to know if you have too much, enough or none.
This is not hard to do with an API test.

 

[brandon429]

Ned agreed. that's why I value side factors that govern what reef tanks do with ammonia above and beyond what any test kit said. we caught misreading seneyes / folks who did not calibrate or slide prep correctly, when they posted nh3 readings from running reef tanks that were claimed out of spec

*what this means is an api owner need not wrestle internally if they get a reading .25-8 ppm on a running tank

that range is what I've seen in cycle battle threads on yearlong running tanks, who could never actually be .25-8ppm ammonia


just because someone posts a reading on the internet...


what reef tanks, aka piles of heated rocks in circulating fast water do with ammonia, does not vary tank to tank much beyond a few thousandths ppm nh3 conversion rate at any given measure from pico reefs to 1000 gallon reef tanks with 100 fish. it's astonishing how tight reef displays control ammonia, and test test kit that says otherwise is misreading/that's how firm the rule is. it's because we all pile rocks in the middle of fast flowing water, by rule after X days that controls ammonia. they built enduring timing charts off these known dynamics.

ammonia does not ever, ever do anything out of time or unpredictable in a reef tank, it's the most predictable param we have to measure. we know where it runs within a few thousandths ppm nh3 in any reef tank given only the # of days the tank has had water in it- I'd call that a tight prediction range, no test needed.


Dr. Reef, Taricha, Dan, Randy I'd have to assume all wield API just fine and use it to make scientific proofs, I know the kit is decent in the right hands. laypersons simply don't need to know ammonia in reef display keeping, they do need to know it in low surface area qt setups though.

when we look at a reef tank picture, if the fish are alive there's no ammonia problem.


if the fish are dead and were left in the tank hours on end, we'd expect there would be one and that's the only known cause of ammonia issues in display reefing.

we don't care what api reads at the precise level; it doesn't change what we do on any given day in a display reef.

if your fish are swimming you can't have an ammonia issue. it can't just appear from nowhere, and the system can't just stop handling it's internal waste stores during a backup while everything runs normally. a real backup kills things, nobody has cycle losses in reefing/ergo no ammonia testing is needed in reefing. it's needed in quarantining.

 

[MnFish1]

Ned agreed. that's why I value side factors that govern what reef tanks do with ammonia above and beyond what any test kit said. we caught misreading seneyes / folks who did not calibrate or slide prep correctly, when they posted nh3 readings from running reef tanks that were claimed out of spec

*what this means is an api owner need not wrestle internally if they get a reading .25-8 ppm on a running tank

that range is what I've seen in cycle battle threads on yearlong running tanks, who could never actually be .25-8ppm ammonia


just because someone posts a reading on the internet...


what reef tanks, aka piles of heated rocks in circulating fast water do with ammonia, does not vary tank to tank much beyond a few thousandths ppm nh3 conversion rate at any given measure from pico reefs to 1000 gallon reef tanks with 100 fish. it's astonishing how tight reef displays control ammonia, and test test kit that says otherwise is misreading/that's how firm the rule is. it's because we all pile rocks in the middle of fast flowing water, by rule after X days that controls ammonia. they built enduring timing charts off these known dynamics.

ammonia does not ever, ever do anything out of time or unpredictable in a reef tank, it's the most predictable param we have to measure. we know where it runs within a few thousandths ppm nh3 in any reef tank given only the # of days the tank has had water in it- I'd call that a tight prediction range, no test needed.


Dr. Reef, Taricha, Dan, Randy I'd have to assume all wield API just fine and use it to make scientific proofs, I know the kit is decent in the right hands. laypersons simply don't need to know ammonia in reef display keeping, they do need to know it in low surface area qt setups though.

when we look at a reef tank picture, if the fish are alive there's no ammonia problem.


if the fish are dead and were left in the tank hours on end, we'd expect there would be one and that's the only known cause of ammonia issues in display reefing.

we don't care what api reads at the precise level; it doesn't change what we do on any given day in a display reef.

if your fish are swimming you can't have an ammonia issue. it can't just appear from nowhere, and the system can't just stop handling it's internal waste stores during a backup while everything runs normally. a real backup kills things, nobody has cycle losses in reefing/ergo no ammonia testing is needed in reefing. it's needed in quarantining.

Your right - @brandon429 Perhaps as you have said the answer is less testing

 

[sumtingbig]

I been using API for the basic test for decades no problem. I believe people may just over think the color match up. Salfert for more detailed test.