QT Cardinal Getting Worse

ccombs · Mar 28, 2019

Ok!

Brief history here. In the past 8 months, my tank has been through a lot. DT got Uronema from a Chromis and it killed several of my fish. I put the 3 remaining in QT, the clown finally succumbed to Uronema and it left a coral beauty and bangaii cardinal. A few days ago, my cardinal rapidly showed signs of velvet (at first I thought ich and then it spread rapidly and looked like he was covered in a dusty cloud), and despite my best efforts and dips, etc. he died as well.

My cardinal is starting to show some spots on the translucent part of the fins and they are multiplying daily. Is it safe to work under the assumption this is also velvet, or should I look at something else. QT tank is at the therapeutic level for cupramine and I verified that with a salifert test. Can you help me confirm? Tank is cloudy since I just fed, but look at translucent part of fins, sorry, got best pics I could.

Fish is swimming well and eating very well.

ScottR · Mar 28, 2019

What’s your salinity at?

ccombs · Mar 28, 2019

ScottR said:
What’s your salinity at?

1.027- A little high, but nothing crazy.

ScottR · Mar 28, 2019

1.027 in your QT? That’s really stressful for fish. For uronema, you can slowly bring it down until you reach maybe 1.012/1.013 to help kill the parasite alongside treatment. Just monitor your fish of course.

Frtdrmrose7 · Mar 28, 2019

This fish is in therapeutic copper now? How long has he been in those levels. Looking at the fins I would agree with velvet. I would not run hypo with copper. You can do a FW dip to give him some relief from velvet and you also confirm he doesn’t have flukes.

ccombs · Mar 28, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
This fish is in therapeutic copper now? How long has he been in those levels. Looking at the fins I would agree with velvet. I would not run hypo with copper. You can do a FW dip to give him some relief from velvet and you also confirm he doesn’t have flukes.

He has been in copper for about 3 weeks now, I can only confirm that the last week or so has been therapeutic. I do know that at some point in the first 2 weeks I dropped out of therapeutic so I restarted my QT clock.

ccombs · Mar 28, 2019

ScottR said:
1.027 in your QT? That’s really stressful for fish. For uronema, you can slowly bring it down until you reach maybe 1.012/1.013 to help kill the parasite alongside treatment. Just monitor your fish of course.

Hmm, I did not know 1.027 would be stressful. Being that the tank is small I just assumed it slightly raised from 1.025 with evaporation which is where I run my DT (with ATO) and my QT. He has been in the QT at that level for over 4 weeks now and seems very healthy (minus the spots)

ScottR · Mar 29, 2019

ccombs said:
Hmm, I did not know 1.027 would be stressful. Being that the tank is small I just assumed it slightly raised from 1.025 with evaporation which is where I run my DT (with ATO) and my QT. He has been in the QT at that level for over 4 weeks now and seems very healthy (minus the spots)

It’s not actually stressful but higher salinity is beneficial for corals whereas fish can tolerate lower levels. Some believe that fish are happier at lower levels and some ppl that keep FO tanks will keep their salinity as low as 1.022

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
This fish is in therapeutic copper now? How long has he been in those levels. Looking at the fins I would agree with velvet. I would not run hypo with copper. You can do a FW dip to give him some relief from velvet and you also confirm he doesn’t have flukes.

I will do this tomorrow and also do a bath. I did a formalin bath the other day with ich-attack for the angel (first time) and the water was such a dark blue that I couldn't see in there, is that normal? I also finally got a hold of ruby reef rally, which I understand has Acriflavine, I have read this would be a better route from Humblefish, and I know @ngoodermuth uses Ruby Reef Rally alot.

ngoodermuth · Mar 29, 2019

Can you post the copper test results? Does the salifert test have a .5 reference sample like the seachem one does? You should not be seeing velvet in therapeutic copper for very long, I’d just want to verify it is indeed therapeutic... do you have any other test kits on hand to cross reference?

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Can you post the copper test results? Does the salifert test have a .5 reference sample like the seachem one does? You should not be seeing velvet in therapeutic copper for very long, I’d just want to verify it is indeed therapeutic... do you have any other test kits on hand to cross reference?

I am not sure what reference sample you are referring to, so I am going to say no lol.

My coral beauty started showing signs before I tested for copper, and then when I realized it wasn't therapeutic, it was too late. I don't have anything to cross reference.

Let me go re-test copper. It isn't as easy as it sounds because I am colorblind, so I will need to wait until my wife is home to do it so she can tell me the reading lol.

For now should I do 60 minutes in Ruby Reef Rally with a heater and pump?

Frtdrmrose7 · Mar 29, 2019

ccombs said:
I am not sure what reference sample you are referring to, so I am going to say no lol.

My coral beauty started showing signs before I tested for copper, and then when I realized it wasn't therapeutic, it was too late. I don't have anything to cross reference.

Let me go re-test copper. It isn't as easy as it sounds because I am colorblind, so I will need to wait until my wife is home to do it so she can tell me the reading lol.

For now should I do 60 minutes in Ruby Reef Rally with a heater and pump?

RRR is an excellent first step but I would a 90 min bath temp controlled

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
RRR is an excellent first step but I would a 90 min bath temp controlled

Cool, I should have specified, 60-90 minutes, removing if distressed.

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Can you post the copper test results? Does the salifert test have a .5 reference sample like the seachem one does? You should not be seeing velvet in therapeutic copper for very long, I’d just want to verify it is indeed therapeutic... do you have any other test kits on hand to cross reference?

Hey! Cardinal has been in RRR for about 15 minutes but he is just kind of sitting at bottom, sort of falling over. When in the QT he was swimming around and acting great and then I moved him over and he is acting like this. Any advice?

Frtdrmrose7 · Mar 29, 2019

ccombs said:
Hey! Cardinal has been in RRR for about 15 minutes but he is just kind of sitting at bottom, sort of falling over. When in the QT he was swimming around and acting great and then I moved him over and he is acting like this. Any advice?

If he is in distress take him out

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
If he is in distress take him out

I don't know if it distress, its like he is confused.

ngoodermuth · Mar 29, 2019

Sometimes, fish just kind of hangout on the bottom during the bath. I usually give them a gentle nudge with the airline tube just to make sure they are still ok... usually they will start swimming.

Just to confirm, temp was matched to your QT and it was aerated both before and during the bath?

ccombs · Mar 29, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Sometimes, fish just kind of hangout on the bottom during the bath. I usually give them a gentle nudge with the airline tube just to make sure they are still ok... usually they will start swimming.

Just to confirm, temp was matched to your QT and it was aerated both before and during the bath?

Yes, I just saw your post post-bath.

I watched him and he wasn't stressed, just chilling, so I monitored carefully. Just took him out. 90 minute bath = success.

Confirmed Copper is still therapeutic.