QT Supplemental Idea for Sand Burying Wrasses

[Skep18]

I just wanted to share, I just took a melanurus wrasse through QT including the 30 days in copper and modified the procedure a bit to satisfy my own paranoid tendencies that influence my QT protocols.

Having to buy sand to provide him a bedding location, I bought new special grade aragonite. I started with a "dust free" aquarium sand but lost a first melanurus wrasse during that attempt. It may have been completely unrelated but not wanting to throw money away as these fish aren't super cheap, I just bought the sand I have in my DT and known it has more widespread use in the hobby.

There's a discussion suggesting aragonite, especially new aragonite that's not been saturated with tank byproducts, can tend to absorb treatments such as copper. I know there's a thread on this, I think maybe Humblefish did a thing testing just how dramatic these effects were and showed they were, at least in his case, minimal. I reproduced these results seeing mostly insignificant changes in copper levels following the introduction of the new clean aragonite. I tested before aragonite change and 24hr after and at times would sometimes have to dose maybe 0.1-0.2ppm copper to bring levels back up. But they never fell below 2ppm. Note, variations could have been within testing variances but I would say the overall trend was downward each time suggesting copper levels would indeed fall over time and/or following the introduction of new aragonite.

The concern left in my head was the local effect of the aragonite on ambient copper levels. Using tupperware to contain the sand, the local flow above and within the sand was minimal. I was not confident I understood the copper levels within the sand where the wrasse would reside every night for hours at a time. Taken to the extreme, could it be possible local levels in the sand diminished below the 1.5ppm or 2ppm theraputic level (depending on who you ask) from the 2.25-2.5ppm copper levels I kept the tank at via Copper Power? I'm not one to assume so I looked for an option that might make that a moot point.

Every 72hr I would replace my sand with a clean aragonite sand bed and new tupperware container. Old sand and containers would be soaked in hot freshwater and left within the 5gal bucket of hot water between uses. In my head, this would destroy any remnant ich/velvet tomonts/tomites (or whichever stage is the encysting phase of the lifecycle) between uses. In my head, this sort of provided a hybrid tank transfer method to the (to me) questionable sand environment making the local copper levels irrelevant.

Anyways, I just thought I would share in case any other overly paranoid people out there existed that might want to employ such practices. While I have definitely not been perfect, I have quarantined every single fish using the prophylactic medicating regime advised by this site since the inception of my tank 6 years ago. I used to QT corals but have moved on since to just removing substrate from them to hopefully minimize exposure to fish-pests. Inverts I have off and on quarantined but now try to only buy from fish-free systems. I have never seen signs of fish disease in my tank related to ich/velvet or flukes in my DT. Just to provide some context.

If anyone has thoughts or criticism, I welcome feedback. Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for sharing. One question though - why not just use an inert sand?

 

[Skep18]

Thanks for sharing. One question though - why not just use an inert sand?

Good question.

I tried what I think you're suggesting by using some local Petco-purchased "dust free" sand with this mindset that would not absorb the copper medication. Much to my surprise, this was indeed dust free when introduced some water. In fact, it even made some hydrophobic-appearing masses that would float at the water surface. Fast forward a few days after use, my first wrasse developed some sort of swimming issue and passed within 24-36hr. The rear end basically seemed non-functional and it would "bob around" in the water.

To be transparent, I know this first fish had an unprovoked-by-me spook event the first day but showed no signs of that effecting its health following the event. In this spook event, I heard the fish hit the back glass of my 20gal long QT tank. Nonetheless, it continued to eat well and act normal for some days after this.

Fast forward a few days, the irregular swimming occurred. One speculation I had was this sand choice may have been contributory. Note, this speculation is likely completely unfounded and just me in my head. I know there's an on-going discussion that involves a condition that sounds like this that occurs in captive wrasses for different speculated reasons. However, to me, if that sand has some sort of coating or otherwise supplemental product applied to it to create this effect (as it would have appeared in the hydrophobic masses), given the fish buries itself in this substrate, I thought that might get in its internal system somehow and cause issues. Internal digestive blockage, gill damage, something like that. That said, in my 6 years, this is my first wrasse. I do not know a lot about this genus of fish.

Given that and not wanting to risk more time and money finding out if it was related to my sand selection, I decided to just go with the common-to-the-hobby Caribsea special grade aragonite to QT my second melanurus wrasse. That's the sand I use in my DT and thus would have more confidence in the fish's compatibility following its transition to the DT.

I suspect something like playground sand from a big box store might be a safer alternative that might be "inert" but just didn't explore that option. Likewise, I suspect someone will point out a Caribsea or similar reef aquarium product that might fit this requirement as well. That might be good information for others to consider.

 

[Skep18]

Also full disclosure, this melanurus nor the Lubbock's wrasse that participated in the above QT event ever showed signs of disease in the approximate 45 days they resided in the QT tank. This is to suggest the above might not be a confirmed positive treatment method as evidenced by practice despite what appears to me to be sound logic. Just FYI.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good question.

I tried what I think you're suggesting by using some local Petco-purchased "dust free" sand with this mindset that would not absorb the copper medication. Much to my surprise, this was indeed dust free when introduced some water. In fact, it even made some hydrophobic-appearing masses that would float at the water surface. Fast forward a few days after use, my first wrasse developed some sort of swimming issue and passed within 24-36hr. The rear end basically seemed non-functional and it would "bob around" in the water.

To be transparent, I know this first fish had an unprovoked-by-me spook event the first day but showed no signs of that effecting its health following the event. In this spook event, I heard the fish hit the back glass of my 20gal long QT tank. Nonetheless, it continued to eat well and act normal for some days after this.

Fast forward a few days, the irregular swimming occurred. One speculation I had was this sand choice may have been contributory. Note, this speculation is likely completely unfounded and just me in my head. I know there's an on-going discussion that involves a condition that sounds like this that occurs in captive wrasses for different speculated reasons. However, to me, if that sand has some sort of coating or otherwise supplemental product applied to it to create this effect (as it would have appeared in the hydrophobic masses), given the fish buries itself in this substrate, I thought that might get in its internal system somehow and cause issues. Internal digestive blockage, gill damage, something like that. That said, in my 6 years, this is my first wrasse. I do not know a lot about this genus of fish.

Given that and not wanting to risk more time and money finding out if it was related to my sand selection, I decided to just go with the common-to-the-hobby Caribsea special grade aragonite to QT my second melanurus wrasse. That's the sand I use in my DT and thus would have more confidence in the fish's compatibility following its transition to the DT.

I suspect something like playground sand from a big box store might be a safer alternative that might be "inert" but just didn't explore that option. Likewise, I suspect someone will point out a Caribsea or similar reef aquarium product that might fit this requirement as well. That might be good information for others to consider.

I’ve not used that Petco sand, but it is unlikely to be the cause of any issues (but I always rinse all sand and gravel in tap water before using it).
The wrasse could have damaged itself, but unless you saw some damage to its face, that’s also unlikely. There is also UNWD:

Unknown Neurological Wrasse Disease (UNWD)

Unknown Neurological Wrasse disease (UNWD) There is a disease that afflicts newly acquired wrasses, usually Cirrhilabrus fairy wrasses or flasher wrasses, Pseudocheilinus, but occasionally other species as well. The gross visual symptoms are always the same; the fish shows a rapid onset of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Skep18]

I’ve not used that Petco sand, but it is unlikely to be the cause of any issues (but I always rinse all sand and gravel in tap water before using it).
The wrasse could have damaged itself, but unless you saw some damage to its face, that’s also unlikely. There is also UNWD:

Unknown Neurological Wrasse Disease (UNWD)

Unknown Neurological Wrasse disease (UNWD) There is a disease that afflicts newly acquired wrasses, usually Cirrhilabrus fairy wrasses or flasher wrasses, Pseudocheilinus, but occasionally other species as well. The gross visual symptoms are always the same; the fish shows a rapid onset of...

www.reef2reef.com

I'd seen this in my searches. I hadn't seen any formal scientific community literature to support it but would love to see such a source if it exists. Just for education and all. Full disclosure, I didn't look hard. I just assumed it was a hobby observation. I know all this is hard to be concrete on. We do what we can with what we have.