Quarantine tanks: Does a beginner "REALLY" need one? Or just good practice?

[davidcalgary29]

Two other points of note:

One, this is an international site, but much of the content here is posted by Americans, and then read by people in other countries. And that advice may be perfectly fine for people in the U.S., but can then result in disastrous consequences if applied by people in other countries. Most medications are simply not available to the average Canadian reefer. Period. Any disease or parasitic infection that is not responsive to copper therefore has a high chance of killing your fish, and the "throw in tank, treat later if disease emerges" strategy is downright foolhardy here. That's not something that's going to be known to a new reefer.

Two, I don't think enough comment has been made about the seasonality of disease epidemiology in the aquarium fish trade. My evidence is only anecdotal, but all of my infections have swum (or floated) in to my tanks in the summer, and possibly because fish shipped then suffer from the stress of high temperatures, which might lower immunity, or because diseases prefer higher water tempteratures. I've never had a new fish show disease (still in quarantine, mind you), and quite a few were shipped in outside temperatures of -20c. That pathogen that wiped out my RSR350 last August was both virulent and fast, (leaving only one angry goby alive (which then went in to copper treatment)), and I could have avoided it all by putting that last fish into quarantine. Live and learn!

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Two other points of note:

One, this is an international site, but much of the content here is posted by Americans, and then read by people in other countries. And that advice may be perfectly fine for people in the U.S., but can then result in disastrous consequences if applied by people in other countries. Most medications are simply not available to the average Canadian reefer. Period. Any disease or parasitic infection that is not responsive to copper therefore has a high chance of killing your fish, and the "throw in tank, treat later if disease emerges" strategy is downright foolhardy here. That's not something that's going to be known to a new reefer.

Two, I don't think enough comment has been made about the seasonality of disease epidemiology in the aquarium fish trade. My evidence is only anecdotal, but all of my infections have swum (or floated) in to my tanks in the summer, and possibly because fish shipped then suffer from the stress of high temperatures, which might lower immunity, or because diseases prefer higher water tempteratures. I've never had a new fish show disease (still in quarantine, mind you), and quite a few were shipped in outside temperatures of -20c. That pathogen that wiped out my RSR350 last August was both virulent and fast, (leaving only one angry goby alive (which then went in to copper treatment)), and I could have avoided it all by putting that last fish into quarantine. Live and learn!

David, why are the medications not available in Canada? And I am curious as to what advice is applicable only to Americans and disastrous to reefers in other countries?

 

[davidcalgary29]

David, why are the medications not available in Canada? And I am curious as to what advice is applicable only to Americans and disastrous to reefers in other countries?

Health Canada introduced new regulations several years ago to reduce the amount of medications, used to treat people, that were being used indiscriminately across a wide range of industries. These medications were then freely entering the general environment, circulating, and becoming a major cause of disease resistance in pathogens in a number of environments. Regulations were then implemented to stop the spread of this practice. This indirectly affected the aquarium trade, as most over-the-counter antibiotics were withdrawn for consumer use. It had an amplified fact on reefers because most small animal vets neither treat tropical fish nor are familiar with their diseases. It's possible to acquire meds from a veterinarian, but -- outside of a few major cities -- you're just not going to get a vet who's familiar with aquarium meds for sick tropical fish. That leaves an awful lot of Canadians with copper as the only legal treatment for most ailments, although I've noticed that Rally has been available sparsely over the past few months.

My caution (and it's a reminder, not a criticism) goes to those who advocate a well-stocked pharmacoepia and go without quarantine, is that that's just not a viable option for lots of people in other countries. And I'm not suggesting that any regular posters here do this, but I do see the occasional post pop up here and on other forums that justify a lack of basic aquarium hygiene with the thought that "there's meds for that". I've had one fish battling some type of fungal growth for six months now, and I've just had to leave treatment at feeding it quality food.

 

[Joe.D]

Hello all! First time reefer here - getting my new RSR 350 installed on Friday. I too have some of the same questions around QT. While I do plan to set up a QT - my questions are around do you leave your QT set up or do you empty, clean, break down/set up whenever you add anything new to your tank? What’s your process in that area (not the QT process itself, the process of leaving it set up or not)? Maybe the answer is different when you’re just starting out and adding livestock fairly regularly vs an established tank where you’re adding things more sporadically.

 

[ninjamyst]

There are a lot of vocal people that advocates for quarantine. But truth is most hobbyists do not. There are a lot of vendors that sell quarantined fish now so that's a good choice if you want to pay a little more for peace of mind.

 

[Alize45]

Went to my LFS today to pick up new clownfish.

I really wanted a B/W oce with an orange oce instead of two orange ones. I think the LFS was trying to upsell me telling me that I NEEDED to have a quarantine tank. I understand its a good practice but the practicality is just not there in my opinion. There is an added cost for tank/accessories/maintenance for a tank that is not even our main tank. Especially as a beginner saltwater person...
My questions:
1. The QT tank... does it get broken down everytime you finish the QT phase?
2. Is it normal to re-cycle the tank everytime you need it? Or is it a thing where you just keep it up the whole time without any fish being in there?
3. When does it become the "absolute" necessity?

On a side note in regards to my LFS and the scenario of the clownfish...
The first LFS told me that a Black and white ocellaris and a standard ocellaris will kill each other. They must be the same color pattern. I did question him about that but his response was that he had x amount of years of experience and he had personal experience with this so I just succumbed to purchasing two common clownfish. I went back home to read that only different species not different patterns of the same species have hostility (barring of course the fact that any two of the same species can hate each other). So I returned to the LFS and he gave me partial-credit and lectured me about how "I should have this knowledge/information before I come to the store." Which ticked me off a bit because the point of a customer admitting they are new to the hobby relies on the LFS for support for the generic guidance. But I understand not every person can get an experienced person and help out with everything. It still upset me enough to just go to another store.

Then I went to the other LFS and got what I wanted. My kid tells me that he wanted one of the "gladiator" patterned clownfish so I go back to the LFS and swap it out for a gladiator one. The problem was that I didnt check it the second time and the clownfish I got was more of a "mis-bar" versus an actual gladiator patterned. (My only reference of a gladiator pattern is having the white line go above and in between its eyes/forehead. Im not going back to the LFS again to repeat the process! lol

Yeah I found out the hard way putting black and whites with ocellaris and whites with ocellaris isn't the best idea sometimes it may work out but more then likely they will kill each other my ocellaris were my first fish so they were alot bigger than my black and whites they killed the one attacking it and wouldn't let the other 1 come out to eat and it died

 

[Mark Goode]

I've yet to put any fish in my tank (or indeed any water). I will be using a quarantine tank. The cost of setting one up will probably be lower than the value of any fish that I buy. I plan to take it down and store it in the garage when not in use.

 

[3429810]

I've yet to put any fish in my tank (or indeed any water). I will be using a quarantine tank. The cost of setting one up will probably be lower than the value of any fish that I buy. I plan to take it down and store it in the garage when not in use.

Good plan. It doesn’t cost enough or take enough effort to justify not doing it. I would never risk all my fish because I was to lazy/cheap to do qt. I really don’t get why people think it’s so hard or takes up to much space. After I had 4 fish in my tank the 5th got uronema in qt. If I didn’t qt my fish would have died and I would have to run the tank fallow.

 

[RSnodgrass]

Coming from someone with over 20yrs of SW tanks.

First, glad the OP was willing to post the questions. I'm sure you expected push back.

Second, sounds like they have a good LFS who's trying to do the right things. I wouldn't be so quick to poo poo on them and ask yourself "how might I be wrong in this situation". It forces a person to think outside the box. I'm always right... right up to the point I'm not and there are enough "I'll prove you wrong" reefers already. I was one for a long time until I finally admitted that maybe that wasn't helping my lack of success turn around.

QT does not need to be expensive, I prefer a clear container. No cycling needed, just add water because there is no rock or sand and you'll mainly do water changes. If you only plan to add those 2 clowns for 3mo then there's less need for a QT as they are the first fish. However, there are common diseases that don't need fish to live and you'll be hosed for all replacement fish.

In the past I've personally not QT'd/isolated fish and if we're being honest, I was really good at finding convincing reasons to justify avoiding the effort. I've also QT'd and paid for QT. Not QT'ing is the number one reason I've seen people leave the hobby, sell their gear for a dime or burn money regularly to replace livestock.

Cycling with fish is possible, it's often a more difficult path if a person isn't aware of a variety of extra steps. Typically this rules out new reefers in reality. Waiting 3 weeks is easier.

Mixed clowns can work, I've seen it, but only on pairs, they weren't wrong saying it often fails. The same bullying behavior that happens with other animals or school kids to identify "the weak link" is present here. The biggest factor with clowns is getting them small so they have not changed sex yet.

Congrats to anyone who made it to the end.

 

[Koh23]

Just my few cents, not that really matter, but...

Qt is great thing. So as frag tank. So as very much anything...

Is it really needed, depends. One thing that i noticed is big difference in way that american reefers buy their fish/corals, and how it is bought here where i am....

For me, quarantine is really not necessary, shop from where i buy do that for me. We dont have such regular shipments of fish, so, in reality any fish u want to buy is already at least month-two in shop tank. If its not sick or death by that time, it is probably good to go.

Of course, shops offers "list" shopping, that is getting fish directly from suplier, no guaranties, no doa, no money back, and of course, nobody want to buy in this way, so we all wait until some fresh fish arives, then wait a bit more...

Of course, there is only 2 stores in whole country, so, no much choice..

So, quarantine makes sense, for most people, but there is exceptions, for sure....

 

[Arego]

No qt either. What's going to happen will happen. Most qt setups are terrible at best and do more harm than good. I'm all for it if it can be done properly. Filling a 20g long and throwing a PVC bend in it isn't it.

Not saying it won't work like that, it's a bit more complicated and just having something called a qt doesn't really make it so.

 

[3429810]

No qt either. What's going to happen will happen. Most qt setups are terrible at best and do more harm than good. I'm all for it if it can be done properly. Filling a 20g long and throwing a PVC bend in it isn't it.

Not saying it won't work like that, it's a bit more complicated and just having something called a qt doesn't really make it so.

Can you provide a source that qt tanks cause more harm then good? People like to say that but I have yet to see the evidence on here. It also always seems to be the people who don’t qt who say that. You are completely wrong that what is going to happen will happen. How many fish have been successfully medicated and saved just on this forum alone? Any tank not connected to another system is a qt regardless of what medications or lack of. There is a thing called observational qt.

Seems like more people successfully putting fish through qt or losing them to diseases that were already to far along than losing fish due to bad qt setups or user error but maybe I’m wrong. I do understand people are less likely to report their failures. Unless you are severely space limited there is no reason not to do an observational qt minimum. You can also cycle it ahead of time so you don’t even need to worry about tons of water changing and ammonia levels. I think people have a hard time stomaching two months of cycling and qt but just do it while the main tank cycles. People are fine figuring out how to keep a living reef in a glass box in their living room but draw the line at learning a very simple a basic process.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Hello all! First time reefer here - getting my new RSR 350 installed on Friday. I too have some of the same questions around QT. While I do plan to set up a QT - my questions are around do you leave your QT set up or do you empty, clean, break down/set up whenever you add anything new to your tank? What’s your process in that area (not the QT process itself, the process of leaving it set up or not)? Maybe the answer is different when you’re just starting out and adding livestock fairly regularly vs an established tank where you’re adding things more sporadically.

I’ll leave mine set up between fish. Unless something actually died in there it doesn’t need a full breakdown. Just a cleanup g to freshen it up for the next fish and remove meds.

 

[Tamberav]

Hello all! First time reefer here - getting my new RSR 350 installed on Friday. I too have some of the same questions around QT. While I do plan to set up a QT - my questions are around do you leave your QT set up or do you empty, clean, break down/set up whenever you add anything new to your tank? What’s your process in that area (not the QT process itself, the process of leaving it set up or not)? Maybe the answer is different when you’re just starting out and adding livestock fairly regularly vs an established tank where you’re adding things more sporadically.

I like to break it down. I keep media in the display tank to quickly cycle it. Like a bag of matrix or a sponge in your sump area.

Do what works best for you as both ways work but I would always break it down after a bacterial infection or uronema.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Went to my LFS today to pick up new clownfish.

I really wanted a B/W oce with an orange oce instead of two orange ones. I think the LFS was trying to upsell me telling me that I NEEDED to have a quarantine tank. I understand its a good practice but the practicality is just not there in my opinion. There is an added cost for tank/accessories/maintenance for a tank that is not even our main tank. Especially as a beginner saltwater person...
My questions:
1. The QT tank... does it get broken down everytime you finish the QT phase?
2. Is it normal to re-cycle the tank everytime you need it? Or is it a thing where you just keep it up the whole time without any fish being in there?
3. When does it become the "absolute" necessity?

On a side note in regards to my LFS and the scenario of the clownfish...
The first LFS told me that a Black and white ocellaris and a standard ocellaris will kill each other. They must be the same color pattern. I did question him about that but his response was that he had x amount of years of experience and he had personal experience with this so I just succumbed to purchasing two common clownfish. I went back home to read that only different species not different patterns of the same species have hostility (barring of course the fact that any two of the same species can hate each other). So I returned to the LFS and he gave me partial-credit and lectured me about how "I should have this knowledge/information before I come to the store." Which ticked me off a bit because the point of a customer admitting they are new to the hobby relies on the LFS for support for the generic guidance. But I understand not every person can get an experienced person and help out with everything. It still upset me enough to just go to another store.

Then I went to the other LFS and got what I wanted. My kid tells me that he wanted one of the "gladiator" patterned clownfish so I go back to the LFS and swap it out for a gladiator one. The problem was that I didnt check it the second time and the clownfish I got was more of a "mis-bar" versus an actual gladiator patterned. (My only reference of a gladiator pattern is having the white line go above and in between its eyes/forehead. Im not going back to the LFS again to repeat the process! lol

I would recommend getting a second container even if just to be sitting empty in storage and used as a hospital tank should the need arise . You never know when you may need to treat fish for a disease if something goes wrong. I would recommend buying from QT vendors or an LFS with a true QT setup (I.E. no new fish added until QT is done, fish treated with meds)

 

[Arego]

I don't need sources I've been reefing for a long time. Just speaking from my own observation across years of keeping reefs.

An article about it as a source would be useless right? No source I give is going to make you happy. It just seemed like common sense and reading posts here that most aren't very effective especially with new reefers eh.

Alot of reefers battle their tanks to get them dialed in, a qt isn't any easier depending on the species in it as well. Like I said, the right setup is great..most are not.

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Quarantining is a hotly debated topic around here, so you will find people on both sides of the fence.

I didn't see the need when I started either. Started with two clown fish and everything seemed fine. A month later I added a Royal Gramma, and within a few days it was flashing all the time. If you think QT is a hassle and unneeded expense, wait until you do introduce a disease and then have to setup a QT tank to treat the survivors and go fallow in the DT for 76 days.

Personally, I believe it is a matter of when, not if, you introduce a disease to your DT if you do not quarantine.

This....

A. I agree with the first statement...people will be on both sides...and "right". Some will say "plop and pray has never caused a problem"...and "I QT everything and have never had issues". To the people who say "my QT failed" or 'my fallow period failed'...i think it always comes down to some break in the protocol.

B. After what I'm describing in C....IMO...people should plan on budgeting for a QT tank as part of their setup. I'm only buying fish from an online place that quarantines...or doing it myself from now on.

B. Same thing happened to me. 2 clowns....couple of firefish...no problem. Royal Gramma...then a week later...ich.
I bought a 20 gallon and got the clowns and firefish out. 75+ days of fallow in the DT. Copper for the fish in the QT. All is now well. Lesson learned.

 

[jfoahs04]

1. The QT tank... does it get broken down everytime you finish the QT phase?
2. Is it normal to re-cycle the tank everytime you need it? Or is it a thing where you just keep it up the whole time without any fish being in there?
3. When does it become the "absolute" necessity?

1. For me, yes. I have a cheap $10, 10 gallon aqueon tank, a $30 HOB filter, a $15 petco heater, and a $20 air pump. It's really a negligible expense relative to the rest of this hobby and it's even cheaper if you piece it together used. When I'm not using it, it's stored in my fish closet.

2. No. I keep a bunch of rock rubble in chamber 2 of my AIO display tank. When I need to set up the QT, I put a couple of pieces of rubble in the HOB filter, and do a water change on my main tank. I then use the old tank water (plus some new water) to fill the QT. No cycling needed, but I do keep extra water handy and test ammonia daily for the first 2 weeks. I haven't had an issue to date. Rubble gets tossed after use in the QT (and new rubble is added to the rear chamber of the DT for future use)

3. I don't know if it ever becomes "absolutely necessary." Some people never do it and are perfectly successful, and some people suffer unnecessary losses in QT. But I think QT is most helpful for newer hobbyists. New tanks are the most volatile in terms of parameters and have the least biodiversity. They're extremely stressful environments for fish, and stress weakens fish immune systems. What's more is that new hobbyists tend to be adding more fish over a shorter period of time than someone with a system that's been running for a few years. So not only are they at increased risk of introducing disease, but their fish are less equipped to handle the diseases naturally. New hobbyists who don't have a QT are also much less likely to be able to do damage control (particularly with a hospital tank). A mature system is generally much more stable. It will have more biodiversity, most likely have fish that have been there for a while and are adapted and comfortable, and most likely won't be adding new fish at high rates. If something gets into a mature tank, it's far more likely that the fish will be able manage it on their own. Neither option is without risk, but depending on natural immunity in a new tank while adding a number of new fish is far riskier than doing the same thing in a mature system in my opinion.

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Ask anyone on this forum about the heartache they've been through when their tank got infected. They end up regretting their choice not to QT and do so moving forward.​

This is me. IMO you should "budget" for a QT. It can be done for little money...as people have pointed out. It does take time...but this hobby is not for the impatient.

 

[doubleshot00]

B. After what I'm describing in C....IMO...people should plan on budgeting for a QT tank as part of their setup. I'm only buying fish from an online place that quarantines...or doing it myself from now on.

I don't think most people do it because of a budget. Its time. QT is time consuming and for some of us we are already dealing with other issues with our tank, life and job to deal with QT. This is a hobby and we are supposed to have fun with it. Enjoy our fish and livestock. But according to most we need to put every fish in a separate tank regulate copper levels, test all the time for ammonia levels, change water every 2-3 days and also sit and stare at the fish to check for issues. That's a lot of work and in the end you still hear people QT and get ich and fish die.

Like I said previously I tried and it was a HUGE fail (several dead fish from ammonia).