questions on a new SW setup

[lerchcon]

I posted this in another thread, but figured I would repost my own thread rather then hijack someone elses

it is really hard to find threads, when your a new guy to a reef site, I thought for sure i would get shunned for asking about fake coral reefs and sand and all , but it is my intention, to do a drop in reef from instant reef probably because theres look better then most I have found, and about a 150-250 gallon tank, tank needs to be glass, and I would like various types of clowns, and tanks possibly a couple of puffers. and of course about 150 pounds of live rock/not so live rock . I am not sure I am still researching an hunting for a tank and stand. Craigslist has a couple good ones but they are acrylic I want a lemar because I like the holes in the bottom and the overflow in the tank, not to mention the nice clean lines instead of white caulked corners. Anyhow I have a few questions for people like me, that dont know where to look to get answers for a fish only tank. Please help me as well. And thanks to the guy who started this thread it helps alot

What size UV would I get for a 150 gallon tank/ 224g?

what kind of skimmer is good but wont break the bank, reason I ask because with ponds there is so much crap that will last a couple weeks to a year then they need to be replaced?

will a fluval filtration system work instead of a sump? is a sump really necessary for a fish only tank? if sump what are the benefits of it to a canister filter? same reason as above.

is there a vendor here that sells inserts that I amy have overlooked when browsing through them? I want a whole reef drop in not one I have to peice together myself, that will come later when i Know more and I will use real coral. right now I want fish only

 

[VegasRick]

I would definitely use a sump with the size tank you are wanting. Be patient lots of good deals show up on Craigslist but the good deals dont last long.
There are a lot of cheap skimmers out there, you can and should spend a lot of time researching them. What is your budget for skimmers? For about 300 there are a lot of nice ones.
There is local club also Las Vegas Valley Reefers, lot of help and stuff for sale there.

 

[beaslbob]

To me one of the most overlooked and important things is to have macro algae (in a refugium) in the new system right from the start.

that will complete the ntirogen cycle, balance out, and stabilize operation.

My .02

 

[lerchcon]

with a fish only tank, is a refugium really necessary? meaning will it create more maintenance introducing the macro algae? I understand that it will be a beneficial algae, but when you put it in the refugium is there maintenance to it? thanks in advance for all the help

 

[VegasRick]

I don't consider a refugium or macro algae necessary. It would be a good way to export nutrients though.

 

[lerchcon]

ok I am lost "export nutrients" sorry I have a small clue but I am still lost in this statement, thanks for the advice though

 

[SmokeyCFH]

Look on craigslist for some cheap(er) equipment, that's where I've found most of my saltwater supplies including 4 skimmers, tanks, powerheads, chiller, heaters etc etc.

A refugium is exactly what it sounds like, a refuge for smaller things and plants like macroalgae to not be consumed by your inhabitants. So it would be a great place for copepods and macroalgae, even seahorses, they're not necessary but they can't hurt at all. I put my macroalgae in my sump.

 

[Wy Renegade]

with a fish only tank, is a refugium really necessary? meaning will it create more maintenance introducing the macro algae? I understand that it will be a beneficial algae, but when you put it in the refugium is there maintenance to it? thanks in advance for all the help

The refugium will also be of benefit for the tangs you were interested in, as it provides an easy supplemental live food source for you to draw directly
from.

 

[lerchcon]

wow i am going to keep asking till you guys stop answering them = ). How if the macro is in the bottom of the tank does it supply a supplimental food supply? hopefully that is not a dumb question.

 

[XavierZ06]

Simple! Grab a piece and throw it in to them Haha.

But seriously a refugium reduces the ammount of labor you need to do on the tank yourself. As do all the pieces of equipment. A tank can survive perfectly well with just hang on or canister filters, WITH the proper maintenance from you.

All the expensive pieces of equipment we have can't replace a good old fashioned water change, but they help to keep the tank clean in between changes and reduce the frequency in which you have to do them.

I've always liked octopus Skimmers, I've never once had a problem with one, And They work like beasts from the start. You can always find a used one on here or Craigslist or even eBay.

 

[VegasRick]

wow i am going to keep asking till you guys stop answering them = ). How if the macro is in the bottom of the tank does it supply a supplimental food supply? hopefully that is not a dumb question.

Besides taking a piece and putting in the main tank, it also provides a predator free place for pods to grow and reproduce. They end up overflowing back into the system.

Also import/export of nutrients is the basis of all successful tank set ups. You are supposed to export via water changes, carbon, phosphates remover, skimmer as much as you import with feedings, additives etc.

 

[steamer51]

The advantages of a sump are:
1. Increase water volume in your system. You are starting out as fish only so I assume you want to keep as many fish as possible without overloading your system. If you have 100 gallon tank plus 100 gallon sump it is almost as good as having a 200 gallon tank when considering how many fish.

2. A place to hide equipment, skimmer, heater etc. so it is not seen in your display. You also don't disturb your display to pull the equipment out for maintenance. If you prefer not very much live rock in your display the excess you need can live in the sump so that it becomes a huge filter instead of just the small benefit you get from a canister filter.

3. It can have a section to be used as a refugium as others have mentioned. The copepods and amphipods will multiply there away from predatation and flow into your display as free, very healthy fish food. Almost all fish eat them and some depend on them as their only food unless trained to eat prepared food. You can also grow macro algae in the refugium to "export nutrients". I am sure you understand the nitrogen cycle from your freshwater experience and it works the same in saltwater, just different types of bacteria breaking things down. Fish waste/leftover food becomes ammonia which becomes nitrite and then nitrate. The nitrate is diluted through water changes but macro algae uses it as food (fertilizer) as well as the phosphates that we want to get rid of. Ideally you have a pleasant looking macro algae growing in the refugium section of your sump that uses all of the nitrates and phosphates (that you don't want in your system) so there is no "food" for pest algae (green hair and other ugly stuff) to grow in your display tank. The algae needs to be harvested by cutting or tearing some off from time to time to "export" the nutrients (Nitrate/Phosphate) that has made it grow. These exported pieces can be given/sold to a fellow reefer or fed to your tangs and other herbivores (they prefer gracillaria macro). If you don't thin out the macro it will become a big clump and stop growing. Some of it will die and the nutrients that it took out of your water will decompose and go right back in.

 

[lerchcon]

thank you all for the advice it is helping alot, I am sure I will have a million questions in the future as well. There are a couple local places here in vegas that have been helping as well. I want to start with fish only because along with the fish tank I have the pond which requires as much attention as well, and I dont want to spend more time with the fish then I do my children. So for me the coral would be a headache, and it would be easier to just do fish only for now, I am not one to juust jump into things with out doing alot of research to make sure I know somewhat what I am doing. after all you dont want to have todepend on someone else doing it for you, so if there is a problem I need to know what to do. I like the idea of the sump and I am not opposed to it, I just want to make sure I make the right choice. I need to also figure out with my small house how I can put an ro/di system in my house, I have 55 galllon plastic barrels to put the water in, the problem I can foresee is the heat here. I have a garage and although insulated the garage gets to be about 120 degrees or higher in the summer here, that would heat the water up, so how would you coool it down. I have no where in the house to put something like this, also I cant put it outdoors because of the same problem with the heat?

I could always just buy the water but I am cheap and cant see paying 25 cents to a dollar for mixed water already, So any suggestions Rick since your in Vegas?

very good reading though I appreciate all the advice. SO would it be better to buy a sump, or get an old fish tank and use that, I plan on getting a skimmer as well, I am really liking the idea of the sump, I was looking at the fluval FX series filter maybe two of them to overkill the filtration, after all I am sure like ponds that too much filtration cant hurt as llong as the flow matches the filtration.

 

[SmokeyCFH]

Honestly man, I'm not gonna lie, it's not as hard as you expect it to be. I came into it really scared and nervous but as long as you let it do its thing and cycle you wont have any worries. I set my tank up the first time with a HOB filter and it worked just fine until I upgraded to the sump. The first thing I did was set everything up the way i needed/wanted it (filter, heater, live rock and sand) then I let it cycle. I went the safe route and let it cycle for at least a month before I added anything besides live rock. By that time I had little critters everywhere. Then eventually I added a damsel to see how it would do and he's still kickin'. So as of a week or so I ago I added my first corals which feed by photosynthesis and are considered more of a beginners coral.

Just make sure to test your water and do the regular water changes and you should gravy!

And with all that said...I have 10 other aquarium's in this room and soon to be a pond right outside.

 

[steamer51]

My RO/DI (Spectrapure) was very easy to set up and takes up very little space as well as saving a lot of money. Basically it has a garden hose connection that is screwed into a "Y" connector off the cold water faucet for my washer and the unit itself hangs on a couple of large screws in the wall behind. The yellow waste water line lives in a wash sink next to the clothes washer for drainage. When I need to make water I just put the blue clean water line into a five gallon container and open the valve on the "Y" so that water flows through the RO/DI unit. I use a new container made for Kerosene because it is blue like the ocean and I don't own anything that uses kerosene so it won't get mixed up like gas could. If I need a lot of water I use a 30 gallon Brute trash can. Many people on the forums have all kinds of fancy plumbing making their RO/DI automatic and directly into their system but it doesn't have to be complicated if you don't mind carrying five gallons of water to where your tank is. If you are going to make water in your garage and don't have water plumbed there, just mount the unit on the wall and run your garden hose to it when you need to. Use a new hose just for RO/DI and hook it up each time you make water. You will need drainage for your waste water line but can mount the unit a little high on the wall and run the line out a window to water your plants outside. Be sure you set an alarm on your phone or something to remind you when to check if the container is full so it does not overflow. It's very easy to be making water and forget about it. As far as the temperature in your garage, storage doesn't matter. Just bring a small container into your house for top off and check it until it comes down to the tank temperature. You can mix water for a water change at the higher temperature as well.

You don't have to buy an expensive sump. Pick up a used tank (very cheap if scratched up) that will fit where you need it and put some baffles in and you are done. There are used sumps already made up out there for cheap also so you don't even need to DIY one. If you have room for a large sump "stock tanks" used for watering livestock are available from rubbermaid in safe plastic from 50 - 300 gallon sizes. My last 100 gallon cost $60 from Tractor Supply but I don't live in Las Vegas where things are probably higher. You don't have to spend a lot of money in this hobby if you don't mind if something is not "pretty" and can be hidden from view.

 

[lerchcon]

this makes me feel a little better about jumping into this, luckily I have a friend I work with that is into this hobby as well, so I will be able to count on him if I need anything. I am just watching craigslist to wait for that one great deal on a large tank. I think I will have room for a pretty big sump, and yes I will just wait to find a great deal on one. So you recommend the sock type? or put different filtration pads on top of each other to serve the same purpose.

What do you think your maintenace schedule is on your tank, can you guys give the size of your tanks, and the weekly/monthly maintenance that you accomplish to give me a round about idea please?

I like the RO/DI system thing in the laundry room I might be able to hide it as well, plus the on I was looking at has the valve built in to use the RO by itself. But I have never tasted RO water. When I sat down I was thinking I can just take a bucket of ro/DI water in the house the night before, then test the water temp before i put the water in the tank. I think that will work, but thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[lerchcon]

So I have been watching craigslist for about a month now and everytime I think I have a great deal, i go see the tank only to find that they have all been scratched, that really would be abig deal if i put the scratches there but I am not paying the prices they want for a scratched tank. anyhow so I went to the local aquatics store and found the tank I will be buying. it is a brand new Visio with the holes and overflow built in with the black nice clean lines I like instead of the white caulking, that I dont like . I think the tank wil be around 600 for a 150 and a 5 year warranty that visio offers. He has one setup in the shop that is awesome and the size is great. So now I just have to save for the rest of what I will need, and a sump, I will be trying to build my own eurostyle tank stand Because that is just the style I love. I think it is called Eurostyle. I cant find a picture of it, but it has flush 2 door bottom with a top that half of the top lifts up with hinges instead of the whole top lifting. I need to find hinges and hardware for this type of door meaning that the door will sit flush like you cut a hole in the plywood and never remove the square. Sorry for poor description . this will be a slow project because I have many hobbies, so it will take forever but I am ok with that.

this will have live rock, fake coral and fish only tank

what size sump for this tank?
powerheads? how many?
chiller? is this needed right away?
heater? is this needed right away?
pump?
since fish only what kind of lighting?
do you need a controller for a fish only tank?
skimmer I need a good one but not trying to break the bank?
do I need a UV since it is fish only?
I cant think right now, what am i missing for my tank of this size, i know sand and all that i mean for equipment?

 

[Rockadile]

you can probably go with a 30 long for a sump or even a 55 if it will fit under your stand. Powerheads really depends on what you buy. for instance 2 mp40 would be just fine with maybe a couple cheaper power heads in the back. chiller is not needed you can get by with fans but i would have a good heater for sure. for a return pump there are many to choose from submersible or non submersible. I would go with something equivalent to a mag 12. Lighting does not matter just depends on what you like. controllers are for convenience and are never something you need IMO and. Now Skimmers is not something you want to skimp on. I tend to look for one that is rated for 1.5 times my water volume. I have no opinion on UV sterilizers, never used one and the jury is still kind of out of they are all they are cracked up to be.

 

[Scomstock]

I think you would be okay using an external filtration system like a fluval canister or even a couple hang on back filters, just remember that you want to filter your water volume about 5 - 10 times per hour... this means for a 100 gal tank you would need to have filters capable of filtering 500 - 1,000 gals an hour. As for skimmers... do your homework, there are alot of skimmers out there that just dont work well at all... And also you say you want a "whole reef drop in" i wouldnt go this direction if i were you... you'd be spending ALOT of money on simple decorations that could be better spent someplace else. If i were you i would buy the correct amount of sand and the right amount of live rock, add fish and condition your tank... You'd be surprised how nice a tank can look with unique pieces of rock aqua-scaped together to create caves and archways, let a little hair algae grow and use "purple up" for your corraline algae growth( it goes outta control) and your tank will be anything but boring... Then after spending some time getting used to maintaining water quality you could probably just add real corals instead of spending an arm and a leg on some fake pieces of plastic lol !

 

[lerchcon]

i have to agree with both of you, i just got back from the aquatics store and spent around 590. He had a sale on a 45-55 gallon sump already customized and all the great junk, he threw in the socks, now all i need is the powerhead, and the pump, then the tanks is a 150 gallon that around 60 inches long and i think 24 inches tall. I will get the tank since the holes need to be drilled and the overfill will be in the center. I need to get to lowes and get the bulkhead fittings, and the double union ball valves as well as the PVC for the pump. I am not sure which pump yet, but I didi get a chance to look at the mag 12, i like it but I am trying to see which would be less amps. for instance a 3900 GPH sub pump for my pond was around 6-7 amps. my external 5500 GPH is 2 amps. So for aquariums is it the same thing?

what do you mean by "condition my tank" all I want is the rock to turn that gorgious purple color, so I will be getting alot of live rock. But I have alot of time so i can let the tank cycle for a while maybe a month, I know it is overkill but I have to wait till finances are there to get the fish anyhow. So it gives me time. from what I have read time is a good thing

but i figured I would go ahead with the sump because this way If i want to add corals later it is one less purchase I have to make.