Quick question on herbie plumbing

[Eder]

Can a herbie be run without an emergency drain? I recognize the consequences. Just asking for a friend.....

 

[jgvergo]

I recommend you just do a bean animal. It is a great design.

 

[Eder]

I recommend you just do a bean animal. It is a great design.

Thanks for the rec. I agree. I have one plumbed that way right now.

Didn’t answer my question though.

 

[jgvergo]

Thanks for the rec. I agree. I have one plumbed that way right now.

Didn’t answer my question though.

Sorry, I don't know enough about Herbie's to answer...

 

[Sod Buster]

I wouldn't do it. So many things that can factor. When I shut the return pump off and start it again, the emergency takes water for 45 seconds before the siphon starts. With the pump on, sticking my arm in the tank to do anything will push water into the emergency drain because of the displacement. Your friend will overflow the tank without an emergency drain at some point.

 

[Firemanreefkeeper]

To answer the question.....yes it can be done. As it has been stated above, it's not a good idea unless you use other safeguards.

 

[Eder]

To answer the question.....yes it can be done. As it has been stated above, it's not a good idea unless you use other safeguards.

Got it. Thanks guys. What other safeguards do you recommend or can think of?

 

[Firemanreefkeeper]

You could use float switches that tell the pump to shut down if the water gets to high in the display or too low in the sump.

 

[dugthefish]

The difference between Herbie and BA is the secondary drain pipe. They both incorporate full siphons and emergency drains.

 

[Sod Buster]

The difference between a single durso & a Herbie is no comparison. Durso is reliable because of the air in the drain flow that also makes it loud. My 1st safeguard would be to drill & put in a external Herbie & use the original durso for the secondary or emergency. If I didn't do that, I'd have a sensor..., well no, I would never run a durso in siphon without an emergency. How is the tank setup? If your friend has a durso drain and a return drilled through the bottom in a weir chamber, drill an external return on the back of the tank & use those holes in the weir for a herbie setup.

 

[ca1ore]

Herbie, by convention, is a dual drain system. Running a single, constrained siphon drain without a backup is both highly unwise and not a herbie. Unless you have some way to measure a potential overflow due to the single siphon clogging, you shouldn’t do it. If you’re going to run a single drain, durso or stockman is the way to go.

 

[theMeat]

A herbie does not have an emergency drain. It has a main/full siphon, and a secondary.
2 drain pipes total

Bean animal has the same, as well as an additional emergency.
3 drain pipes total

So what is your question?

 

[Sod Buster]

Running a Herbie a 1/4" below the top of the secondary pipe is wrong?
My Herbie secondary is usually just air.

 

[Eder]

So I’m still tinkering with this setup. I finally got it pretty much silent with a MUCH smaller pump and slowing down the far drain as well. But today I took off the top part of the durso drain in the left overflow and it is even more silent so it’s running like a herbie full siphon. Water is approx 3” above drain in the overflow.

The right drain isn’t draining much at all. But finally figured out that it’s because the garage floor isn’t level so like 95% of the draining is occurring in the left drain which I keep experimenting with.

Drilling the back is possible but it’s an absolute last option. I don’t mind slow draining since I don’t like moving a lot of water through the sump in general and we have 4 Mp40s ready for this setup.

So I was wondering once I moved it into the house and since the floor is level if I ran the left drain open like a herbie and then the right I could keep like a durso (emergency) almost as it is right now would this work....?

Does this make sense?

Our other system is bean animal and it’s great. But upgrading to 300g was only considered by the wife if we could get a bottom drilled tank. So we had the overflows custom made since this is a 13 year old marine land tank which actually has never touched water before and the holes on bottom were 17” apart and i chose not to do a closed loop or ghost overflow and drill the back.

 

[theMeat]

Am I seeing a herbie on one side and a herbie on the other?
Where’s return line?

 

[Sod Buster]

You have plenty of room in those overflows to drill another hole in each one for the secondary.
It looks like return, durso, durso, return.

 

[Eder]

You have plenty of room in those overflows to drill another hole in each one for the secondary.
It looks like return, durso, durso, return.

You’re right. Each overflow has a return and a drain.

I’ll consider drilling another but I’m really trying to get away without it.

So question remains. Can I run one Side as an open drain and another as an emergency?

We will only have a 5-10 gal ATO. tank can easily handle 10 more gallons if not 20 to the brim and the sump can handle at least 5-10 so I’m just not seeing how we can overflow. Am I missing something?

We’re experienced in the hobby with 6 years. But not experienced at all with herbie or durso. Just bean.

 

[Sod Buster]

If you raise one of the drains up a 1/2" to use as a secondary, technically yes. That will cause only 1 overflow to function as the DT water surface skimmer and the other overflow will stagnate w/ surface slime. To get around that, in the stagnate overflow, you can drill a tiny hole a few inches down under the water line to push that slime into the DT to get sucked down the primary drain.
You can also try to drill a hole in the durso pipe and shove some hard airline tubing into the drain to let in more air. If you find the sweet spot it will quiet it down.
With your detuned pump setup in the garage doing the 95% siphon, plug the 95% drain and see how long it takes the 5% to fully siphon 100% of the water w/out overflowing the tank or starving the pump I guess if want to know if it will work. Let us know if it does.

 

[Eder]

Awesome suggestion. Thanks!

 

[theMeat]

You have 4 holes total.
In one overflow put primary drain and emergency.
In the other overflow put secondary and return.
Have done this on many tanks. No slime, works great