Randy: is microbacter 7 a scam?

[Miami Reef]

What is your opinion on microbacter 7? A lot of people keep recommending this product for Dino’s and cyano. Does this actually have any effect on those organisms?

Slightly off topic: when people say dose phytoplankton to outcompete with Dinos/cyano, do they mean live or dead phyto? Is there actually a difference?

If I’m not mistaken, I don’t think phyto directly feeds/outcompetes with dinos etc. I think it feeds copepods which feed on Dino’s? But then, if copepods can feed off Dino’s then there wouldn’t be a purpose of dosing phyto?

I have a lot of gaps in my knowledge about this subject.

 

[Lavey29]

What is your opinion on microbacter 7? A lot of people keep recommending this product for Dino’s and cyano. Does this actually have any effect on those organisms?

Slightly off topic: when people say dose phytoplankton to outcompete with Dinos/cyano, do they mean live or dead phyto? Is there actually a difference?

If I’m not mistaken, I don’t think phyto directly feeds/outcompetes with dinos etc. I think it feeds copepods which feed on Dino’s? But then, if copepods can feed off Dino’s then there wouldn’t be a purpose of dosing phyto?

I have a lot of gaps in my knowledge about this subject.

I dose phytoplankton daily. I cant say my situation is perfect but it's not that bad either. Still have some different types of algae here and there but primarily on the sandbed alone. I think pods live mainly in the rocks hiding from fish so that is where they would feed right? Snails, coaches etc... for the sandbed? I dose microbacter clean once a week.

 

[RMS18]

I'm not as smart as Randy but I can say for sure, it all really matters what dino your dealing with.

 

[dvgyfresh]

@AlgaeBarn , yes dosing phytoplankton can help with Dino’s , it needs to live. I would recommend ocean magik

 

[Miami Reef]

(I actually read it on another forum)

Imagine turning on reds and yellows to temporarily encourage algae growth to outcompete dinos…..

I don’t know how effective dinos are at utilizing that spectrum, but it’s definitely an interesting thought.

 

[mdb_talon]

I certainly dont think it is a scam. I used it for cycling last tank i started and it worked very well and quickly. Whether it is effective to ward off dinos or cyano i have no idea, but as far as i know they dont advertise it that way it may just be hobbyists saying that as far as i have seen.

 

[Lavey29]

(I actually read it on another forum)

Imagine turning on reds and yellows to temporarily encourage algae growth to outcompete dinos…..

I don’t know how effective dinos are at utilizing that spectrum, but it’s definitely an interesting thought.

You will probably wind up with an algae salad.

 

[Miami Reef]

I certainly dont think it is a scam. I used it for cycling last tank i started and it worked very well and quickly. Whether it is effective to ward off dinos or cyano i have no idea, but as far as i know they dont advertise it that way it may just be hobbyists saying that as far as i have seen.

I didn’t clarify myself. Yes, I know microbacter 7 is excellent for cycling a tank. But beyond the initial cycle, there’s no reason to think a tank is lacking this bacteria. I also don’t know if nitrifying bacteria will physically compete with Dino’s. It doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Miami Reef]

You will probably wind up with an algae salad.

Hmm. This sounds like…a really interesting way to combat Dino’s. I think we definitely need to experiment with this. I feel the entire point of beating Dino’s is to make other algaes compete with them. That’s why we raise nutrients. I just think it takes a while, especially because I noticed how Dino’s get initially worse after the spike in nutrients.

 

[Lavey29]

Isnt that the purpose of a refugium with macroalgae?

 

[Miami Reef]

Isnt that the purpose of a refugium with macroalgae?

I think the purpose of a refugium is to encourage algae growth in the sump rather than in the DT.


For Dino’s, they usually encourage growing those competitions in the DT - where the dinos are.

 

[Lavey29]

I think what you stated previously about nutrients levels is key to the algae battle and a natural approach to combating them which is better then adding chemicals. It will just take some months to naturally eradicate them this way.

 

[Miami Reef]

I think what you stated previously about nutrients levels is key to the algae battle and a natural approach to combating them which is better then adding chemicals. It will just take some months to naturally eradicate them this way.

This is my opinion as well. The whole point of this thread was to try to understand the reason why people like recommending microbacter 7 when I don’t understand the mechanism of how it can work. I just wanted to see if I was missing something.

 

[Reef.]

This is my opinion as well. The whole point of this thread was to try to understand the reason why people like recommending microbacter 7 when I don’t understand the mechanism of how it can work. I just wanted to see if I was missing something.

I wonder the same, seems to get recommended a lot around here.

I do think the way the OP is worded may throw the thread off in the wrong direction though, something can just not work, that doesn’t make it a scam.

 

[Billldg]

It helped me combat Dinos, so no, it is not a scam. I feel it is a softer version of Vibrant. I dosed 80 ml of Vibrant twice a week and 80 ml MicroFactor7 every day in between. I defeated Dino's and thus, I will give MicroFactor7 every bit a part of defeating it as any other.

Its a form of bacteria, as is any other. Some are more forgiving than others, BUT, they are all still bacteria's in some sort. Some work while others don't, its just that way unfortunately. It really depends on your tank parameters and the situation of your tank.

Vibrant works for some while it doesn't work for others, and the same can be said for MicroFactor7. The only difference is the tank itself.

I truly hope this makes everyone understand that what works for some may not work for others as out tanks are way so different in so many ways that we can not understand, thus, the way these bacteria formula's can effect our tanks and the way they work.

 

[Lavey29]

It helped me combat Dinos, so no, it is not a scam. I feel it is a softer version of Vibrant. I dosed 80 ml of Vibrant twice a week and 80 ml MicroFactor7 every day in between. I defeated Dino's and thus, I will give MicroFactor7 every bit a part of defeating it as any other.

Its a form of bacteria, as is any other. Some are more forgiving than others, BUT, they are all still bacteria's in some sort. Some work while others don't, its just that way unfortunately. It really depends on your tank parameters and the situation of your tank.

Vibrant works for some while it doesn't work for others, and the same can be said for MicroFactor7. The only difference is the tank itself.

I truly hope this makes everyone understand that what works for some may not work for others as out tanks are way so different in so many ways that we can not understand, thus, the way these bacteria formula's can effect our tanks and the way they work.

We're you taking any other steps to combat your dinos or just dosing the 2 mentioned substances?

 

[Billldg]

We're you taking any other steps to combat your dinos or just dosing the 2 mentioned substances?

LOL...I was taking a few. I installed a UV sterilizer, though, the Dino's were not going into the water column at night. I changed out my filters socks daily. I dosed 80 ml of NeoNitro and NeoPhos daily as well to raise my N03 and P04. I did this for over a month. The point is bacteria is bacteria, whether is be Vibrant or MicroFactor7. When it comes to seed a new tank I believe in neither. I will always go with actual live rock from the ocean. I have seen the difference and will order another 20 pounds to help seed my tank again after me defeating Dino's. I just feel that MicroFactor7 is more forgiving than others. I never seen a reaction to my corals that are left after my battle with Dino's. The corals in question are LPS. I have a 7+ frag of TSA Black Widow blastos, 8+ head of WWC Rainbow blastos, and a 30+ colony of BSA TaTa Twister blastos that are now thriving a few weeks after me defeating Dino's. Below are pics of them today.

Read thru my current build thread, roughly, 30 + pages in and you should see my starting to combat Dino's. I read thru it recently and thought I did a better job in my thread on combating it. I didn't, and so, if you need to ask any questions on how I personally defeated Dino's, I will be more than happy to tell you. Remember though, this is how I defeated Dino's and only the strain I had.

 

[Dan_P]

What is your opinion on microbacter 7? A lot of people keep recommending this product for Dino’s and cyano. Does this actually have any effect on those organisms?

Bottled bacteria other than the ones containing nitrifying bacteria could be a waste of money. Products like this seem to survive on testimonials, and the belief that miracles can be purchased. Bottles of RO water sold as cures for nuisance algae might be an effective product.

Slightly off topic: when people say dose phytoplankton to outcompete with Dinos/cyano, do they mean live or dead phyto? Is there actually a difference?

Live phytoplankton.

A popular belief in this hobby is to get rid of organism X, starve it by adding organism Y. The approach is supported by testimonials and enthusiastic supporters.

If I’m not mistaken, I don’t think phyto directly feeds/outcompetes with dinos etc. I think it feeds copepods which feed on Dino’s? But then, if copepods can feed off Dino’s then there wouldn’t be a purpose of dosing phyto?

I have a lot of gaps in my knowledge about this subject.

Dinoflagellate growth is an interesting topic and an infestation can be very frustrating when starting an aquarium. It seems that if the species cannot be readily killed by UV, the infestation can become a protracted nuisance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I didn’t clarify myself. Yes, I know microbacter 7 is excellent for cycling a tank. But beyond the initial cycle, there’s no reason to think a tank is lacking this bacteria. I also don’t know if nitrifying bacteria will physically compete with Dino’s. It doesn’t make sense to me.

Aside from cycling, I'm not sure there's a benefit to adding bacteria to existing reef tanks unless shifting microbial populations is the actual goal.

For example, in a cyanobacteria situation, adding a different (and less unsightly) species to out outcompete it may have some benefit.

 

[taricha]

MB 7 is one of the most widely used bottle bac supplements in the hobby. It has very positive (anecdotal) reports.
here's a thread on people using MB7 and MB Clean to help with dinos.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...s-for-you-please-reply-to-this-thread.818021/

Now, if you start asking detailed questions about what exactly the bacteria are supposed to do to the dinos, and try to show that bottled bac products do that (better than native aquarium bacteria)... it gets really difficult to demonstrate their hoped for effect.

(also @Miami Reef it sounds like you have several questions that might be well-served in previous threads, and new ones are sometimes not required )