Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Phyto and Skimming: Advice Needed

Phyto and pods are still tracking to arrive today. I plan to autodose the phyto and the setup is ready. I’ll detail that later.

The immediate question is how skimming interacts with phyto addition. I understand some may get skimmed out and it is often recommended to stop skimming for a time when you add it. In the future I am planning to do something along those lines.

In my current situation, with no fish or large inverts, and not even the premium rock for 3 weeks, I’m thinking of turning off the skimmer entirely during that time. I’m a big fan of skimmers for aeration and organic export, and the Tunze is working well as I have described in earlier posts.

Drawback will be more accumulation of organics (mostly from the refugium algae) and yellowing of the water. Benefit will be that the phyto stays in the water until something consumes it, instead of skimming it out again.

Thoughts?

 

[JonoH]

Phyto and Skimming: Advice Needed

Phyto and pods are still tracking to arrive today. I plan to autodose the phyto and the setup is ready. I’ll detail that later.

The immediate question is how skimming interacts with phyto addition. I understand some may get skimmed out and it is often recommended to stop skimming for a time when you add it. In the future I am planning to do something along those lines.

In my current situation, with no fish or large inverts, and not even the premium rock for 3 weeks, I’m thinking of turning off the skimmer entirely during that time. I’m a big fan of skimmers for aeration and organic export, and the Tunze is working well as I have described in earlier posts.

Drawback will be more accumulation of organics (mostly from the refugium algae) and yellowing of the water. Benefit will be that the phyto stays in the water until something consumes it, instead of skimming it out again.

Thoughts?

How are you going to flush the remnants of phyto in the lines when dosing?

I tried this myself a while back (still have it set up for when i go on holidays), but found the tubing got pretty rancid after a few weeks.

Someone smarter than me could perhaps have a dual doser set up so one pulls out and the other pushes back in perhaps...?

Personally i just leave my skimmer on when dosing phyto, never really noticed it affect the skimmer much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Optimal Temp Storing Phyto

I have not seen any discussion of what temp is best to store phyto aside from refrigeration. I plan to store it in a small fridge from which I will dose it directly. Being the only thing in the fridge, I can set the temp at any temp I want.

My default would be as cold as possible while ensuring it doesn’t freeze. Say, mid to upper 30’s?

It will get stirred once or maybe twice a day. Thoughts on whether once a day is plenty, or is twice better? It will be in a timer and will stir during dosing,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How are you going to flush the remnants of phyto in the lines when dosing?

I tried this myself a while back (still have it set up for when i go on holidays), but found the tubing got pretty rancid after a few weeks.

Someone smarter than me could perhaps have a dual doser set up so one pulls out and the other pushes back in perhaps...?

Personally i just leave my skimmer on when dosing phyto, never really noticed it affect the skimmer much.

I’ll detail the setup in a bit, but the lines, except the last inch, will be kept at fridge temp since the fridge is sitting on top of a brute can and the tubing goes straight down out of the fridge and into the sump.

 

[JonoH]

I’ll detail the setup in a bit, but the lines, except the last inch, will be kept at fridge temp since the fridge is sitting on top of a brute can and the tubing goes straight down out of the fridge and into the sump.

Ahh that makes more sense.

I used a small makeup fridge (believe it or not!), and an auto stirrer from Amazon - stirrer was on a smart plug so just had it on a timer to stir periodically.

I like the set up for when i'm not there to dose/feed the tank, but i found that i preferred to do it manually when i was home.

 

[twentyleagues]

Phyto and Skimming: Advice Needed

Phyto and pods are still tracking to arrive today. I plan to autodose the phyto and the setup is ready. I’ll detail that later.

The immediate question is how skimming interacts with phyto addition. I understand some may get skimmed out and it is often recommended to stop skimming for a time when you add it. In the future I am planning to do something along those lines.

In my current situation, with no fish or large inverts, and not even the premium rock for 3 weeks, I’m thinking of turning off the skimmer entirely during that time. I’m a big fan of skimmers for aeration and organic export, and the Tunze is working well as I have described in earlier posts.

Drawback will be more accumulation of organics (mostly from the refugium algae) and yellowing of the water. Benefit will be that the phyto stays in the water until something consumes it, instead of skimming it out again.

Thoughts?

I turned off my skimmer for an hour or two when I was dosing phyto. ( I will start again on the new tank) There was a noticeable clarity difference after resuming skimming after about an hour. I think some of the phyto was consumed during the skimmer being off but I think a lot was skimmed out after only a few hours. I had thought of trying to automate phyto delivery and only running the skimmer for a few hours a day on a timer many hours after phyto dosing, I am interested in what you come up with for your dosing. I was thinking of using a mini-fridge and a stir plate along with a dosing pump. My main issues would be when is best to dosing my brain is saying dose phyto after light out as the pods would be more active and corals are more likely to be feeding but at the same time thats when the skimmer would be most beneficial. Maybe I am over thinking it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ghost Feed for Organisms that Came with the Live Rock

I decided to begin to dose very small amounts of food for the various creatures that came with the live rock. These include hermit crabs, mithrax crabs, and various creatures living in tunnels I see at the glass sand interface.

I bought some small and extra small packages of Reef Nutrition TDO chroma boost for this purpose, and then later feed the fish I will get in a few weeks.

Imagine my surprise when the packs I got this morning via Amazon were plastered with the statement “SAMPLE. Not for retail sale” on then. I wrote to Reef Nutrition in case it is not them selling them. The Amazon picture does not include that statement, though it does say they are sample size.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I turned off my skimmer for an hour or two when I was dosing phyto. ( I will start again on the new tank) There was a noticeable clarity difference after resuming skimming after about an hour. I think some of the phyto was consumed during the skimmer being off but I think a lot was skimmed out after only a few hours. I had thought of trying to automate phyto delivery and only running the skimmer for a few hours a day on a timer many hours after phyto dosing, I am interested in what you come up with for your dosing. I was thinking of using a mini-fridge and a stir plate along with a dosing pump. My main issues would be when is best to dosing my brain is saying dose phyto after light out as the pods would be more active and corals are more likely to be feeding but at the same time thats when the skimmer would be most beneficial. Maybe I am over thinking it.

Thanks. That’s essentially exactly what I’m planning. :)

 

[twentyleagues]

How are you going to flush the remnants of phyto in the lines when dosing?

I tried this myself a while back (still have it set up for when i go on holidays), but found the tubing got pretty rancid after a few weeks.

Someone smarter than me could perhaps have a dual doser set up so one pulls out and the other pushes back in perhaps...?

Personally i just leave my skimmer on when dosing phyto, never really noticed it affect the skimmer much.

I used to have a mix of stuff I dosed from a fridge unit. I ran my ato on a "y" into the tube that was used for the liquid foods. Any time the ato kicked on it would flush the line. I have no idea on the longevity of such a system mine only ran for 6 months before I stopped using this set up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I used to have a mix of stuff I dosed from a fridge unit. I ran my ato on a "y" into the tube that was used for the liquid foods. Any time the ato kicked on it would flush the line. I have no idea on the longevity of such a system mine only ran for 6 months before I stopped using this set up.

Thanks. :)

I was thinking of using such a “y” to flush out an AFR dosing tube. I haven’t worked out those details yet, but a lot of folks do it.

 

[bradreef]

I personally don't think a skimmer is needed much on a new system. I've seen many successful tanks without one all together. I would run your skimmer once nutrients build up. My new tank is 7 months old and I skim rarely. I skimmer has many + and some -

 

[rishma]

Phyto and Skimming: Advice Needed

Phyto and pods are still tracking to arrive today. I plan to autodose the phyto and the setup is ready. I’ll detail that later.

The immediate question is how skimming interacts with phyto addition. I understand some may get skimmed out and it is often recommended to stop skimming for a time when you add it. In the future I am planning to do something along those lines.

In my current situation, with no fish or large inverts, and not even the premium rock for 3 weeks, I’m thinking of turning off the skimmer entirely during that time. I’m a big fan of skimmers for aeration and organic export, and the Tunze is working well as I have described in earlier posts.

Drawback will be more accumulation of organics (mostly from the refugium algae) and yellowing of the water. Benefit will be that the phyto stays in the water until something consumes it, instead of skimming it out again.

Thoughts?

I would turn off skimmer for a time, say a week or two, to help get things established. I think there is little downside at this stage. Then I’d just run it continuously after that. I don’t imagine that skimming materially changes the outcome if dosing phytoplankton continuously.

 

[Jeroen254]

Thanks. :)

I was thinking of using such a “y” to flush out an AFR dosing tube. I haven’t worked out those details yet, but a lot of folks do it.

Could you share this? I use AFR and I see crusting on the end off my dose line all the time.. Havent really thought about something myself yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could you share this? I use AFR and I see crusting on the end off my dose line all the time.. Havent really thought about something myself yet.

I have not yet set up AFR dosing, but the idea is to send both ro/di top off and AFR out the same tip end.

The tubing from the AFR pump and the tubing from the ATO come together in a “Y”, and the remaining part of the y goes to or drips directly into the sump.

The most important aspect is to be certain neither fluid reservoir can siphon or back flow into the other container. A peristaltic pump should be able to prevent such flow backwards, but another way to help prevent the risk is to have the “y” be directly over and dripping into the sump, and arranged so fluids flow down and out if only one pump is on. Fluids are very unlikely to siphon back up and into the other container if there is a substantial air opening very near where they meet.

My ATO is not a peristaltic pump (a Tunze Osmolator 3) and may still have details to work out about preventing siphoning. I expect to have the AFR reservoir slightly above the ATO reservoir, since in a mistake scenario, AFR flow into the large ATO reservoir is a mess, but 120 gallons of ATO water flowing into a 1 gallon AFR container would be far worse. Lol

Backflow preventing devices can also be useful, but I’m not planning on them yet.

Hope that is clear. I’ll have more when I actually implement it.

 

[Jeroen254]

I have not yet set up AFR dosing, but the idea is to send both ro/di top off and AFR out the same tip end.

The tubing from the AFR pump and the tubing from the ATO come together in a “Y”, and the remaining part of the y goes to or drips directly into the sump.

The most important aspect is to be certain neither fluid reservoir can siphon or back flow into the other container. A peristaltic pump should be able to prevent such flow backwards, but another way to help prevent the risk is to have the “y” be directly over and dripping into the sump, and arranged so fluids flow down and out if only one pump is on. Fluids are very unlikely to siphon back up and into the other container if there is a substantial air opening very near where they meet.

My ATO is not a peristaltic pump (a Tunze Osmolator 3) and may still have details to work out about preventing siphoning. I expect to have the AFR reservoir slightly above the ATO reservoir, since in a mistake scenario, AFR flow into the large ATO reservoir is a mess, but 120 gallons of ATO water flowing into a 1 gallon AFR container would be far worse. Lol

Backflow preventing devices can also be useful, but I’m not planning on them yet.

Hope that is clear. I’ll have more when I actually implement it.

We have the same exact setup in this. I'll think about this and will report back if I have some ideas!

 

[twentyleagues]

I have not yet set up AFR dosing, but the idea is to send both ro/di top off and AFR out the same tip end.

The tubing from the AFR pump and the tubing from the ATO come together in a “Y”, and the remaining part of the y goes to or drips directly into the sump.

The most important aspect is to be certain neither fluid reservoir can siphon or back flow into the other container. A peristaltic pump should be able to prevent such flow backwards, but another way to help prevent the risk is to have the “y” be directly over and dripping into the sump, and arranged so fluids flow down and out if only one pump is on. Fluids are very unlikely to siphon back up and into the other container if there is a substantial air opening very near where they meet.

My ATO is not a peristaltic pump (a Tunze Osmolator 3) and may still have details to work out about preventing siphoning. I expect to have the AFR reservoir slightly above the ATO reservoir, since in a mistake scenario, AFR flow into the large ATO reservoir is a mess, but 120 gallons of ATO water flowing into a 1 gallon AFR container would be far worse. Lol

Backflow preventing devices can also be useful, but I’m not planning on them yet.

Hope that is clear. I’ll have more when I actually implement it.

Could you share this? I use AFR and I see crusting on the end off my dose line all the time.. Havent really thought about something myself yet.

I have used the "y" set up 1 time in the hobby years ago and it worked fine. I used it for around 6 months like I said above. Typical things like Randy said make sure no obvious back flow issues. I did not think of the possibility of back flow from the mixed frozen foods container or worse yet the ato back siphoning into the food container. Honestly either way would have been a mess. It never happened in those 6 months but I suppose it could have in the right conditions. I still currently dose afr by hand but I do have a dosing container and dosing pump to set up eventually. I will be using this "system" as I have seen the afr crystalize on my dosing syringe and cup so I know it will on the dosing tube. Watching as you get this implemented until then I will probably continue hand dosing. I no longer have direct access to my external reefing brain so I sometime struggle to ascertain the most probable outcome that to some would be obvious. lol

 

[Projects with Sam]

Could you share this? I use AFR and I see crusting on the end off my dose line all the time.. Havent really thought about something myself yet.

I use drip irrigation fittings for stuff like this because they are the right size, usually have big barbs and ample area to hose-clamp or zip-strip secure and they're cheap and plentiful...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Phyto and Copepod Dosing

I ordered both pods and phyto from Dinkins, partly using a gift card I won in a holiday contest last fall. One of the things I really thought was a step in the right direction was the ability to select a delivery day at the start of checkout. That is especially important to me since I am in and out. Unfortunately, reality returned and UPS did not deliver it on the expected day. Good idea, but not implemented well enough.

A second issue was the wrong pod product was sent. I assume Dinkins will fix this, but they have not yet responded to yesterdays pm or this mornings email. The sent their mixed pods while I ordered a specific type. The type I picked, apocyclops, was the type that several sources suggested was most likely to become self sustaining. Since I won’t have fish for weeks, that was the plan. The mix I got contained these, but also other types.

While this is not a criticism, since I just had no idea what to expect, I was surprised at how few pods I could actually see in the half gallon bottle (see picture). Maybe there are many that are too small to see by eye.

The phyto was what I asked for, and got 2 half gallon bottles. They fit nicely in my mini fridge for dosing.

I have one bottle on a stir plate in the fridge, with a stir bar in it, and a dosing pump suction tube entering through a hole I drilled in the lid.

Also in the fridge is a 1.1 mL per min BRS doser. It draws from the stirring phyto, and delivers straight down through a hole in the bottom of the fridge, through a hole in the Brute lid, and into the return chamber Brute.

The stir plate and the doser are plugged into a timer outside the fridge, through a hole I cut in the side of the fridge. Pro tip: hole saws meant for wood don’t do squat to metal. Lol. I ended up using a saber saw to cut a hole.

The dosing and stirring is set up for about 90 minutes in the middle of the night, and seems to work fine.

Here are some pics:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

PS, some day I’ll have time to straighten up the wiring rat’s nest in the above photo. lol

 

[bradreef]

Tisbe pods can be really hard to see. Those look like apex. What kind where you wanting?