REALLY struggling to keep coral... suggestions!?!

[Broadfield]

Issue

I cannot keep LPS or SPS and slightly struggling with some softies.

I have hesitated to even make a post about this for months... trying to figure it out on my own via research on the forums, asking others in the field and plain old trial and error. I have done tons of research, probably too much to be honest with you... it's only making me more unsure.

I will give you as much info as possible about my current setup and the various things I have tried, changed etc. The tank has been up and running for 1 year.


Current Setup

• Tank: Innovative Marine Fusion Micro 30L 36" x 11" x 13" - 30 gallon
• Lighting: (2) Aqua Illuminations Hydra 52's 8" AWL (have tried various intensities giving it a month at a time). I realize these are a lot of fixture for this tank, but I upgraded them from Vegas in preparation for a 92 gallon. I normally keep these at the following %'s:

UV - 35%
V - 35%
DB - 50%
RB - 45%
G - 17%
R - 7%
CW - 10%​

• Skimmer: Innovative Marine Ghose Mid-Size
• Circulation: (2) MP10W's typically on 25% Reef Crest and a 476 gallon/hr main pump.
• Tank Controller: Apex Gold with temp, pH, salinity, ORP, WXM Vortech controller, AWM light controller.
• Dosing: 2-part BRS with dosing pumps through Apex
• ATO: Innovative Marine
• Water Changes: Bi-weeky 20% (BRS 5-stage RO/DI) change filters at least once/year. TDS never reads anything but 0.00.
• Filtration: I only use the yellow particulate sponge that comes with the tank on each overflow. I rinse these every 1-2 weeks.
• Substrate: 1-1/2" of CaribSea Arag-Alive
• Liverock: Properly cured/seeded Marco Dry Rock

Parameters

• Temp: 77.5 - 78.5 (Tested with Apex probe)
• pH: 8.05 - 8.25 (Tested with Apex probe)
• ORP: 300 - 400 (Tested with Apex probe)... still not really sure how to utilize this reading.
• Salinity: 33 (Tested with Apex probe) Checked against refractometer
• Calcium: 420 - 440 (Tested with Hanna Checker)
• Alkalinity: 8.5 (Tested with Hanna Checker)
• Magnesium: 1350 - 1400 (Tested with Red Sea)
• Phosphate: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker LR)
• Nitrate: 0.00 (Tested with Red Sea)
• Nitrite: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR)
• Phosphorus: 29 ppb (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR) = 0.089 ppm inorganic phosphate

Notes

• I have tried feeding with Reef-Roids and/or mysis.
• I have tried multiple coral vendors.
• I have tried running GFO and/or GAC... no difference.
• I have a very slight amount of short green hair algae tuffs here and there. Never really gets more than that. Not even enough to easily spot it in the tank. Although it seems to like to grow in my GSP the best.
• I have a VERY slight amount of Cyano that slightly discolors the substrate in low flow areas. It disappears at night and slowly reappears throughout the day. It never builds up to where it's a mat of Cyano.
• I have to swipe the glass every 2 days... maybe 3.
• I grow purple coralline algae without issue. All rock work and MP10's are purpled up.

Fish Etc.

• (3) Yellow tail damsels
• (1) Blood red fire shrimp
• (1) brittle star
• (-) various snails

Corals that have survived the life of the tank

• Green polyp leather... beautiful specimen
• GSP... who cares, it's GSP
• Couple zoa... don't really grow much, but look healthy
• Various pipe organ coral
• Purple cauliflower coral
• Toadstool leather

As you can see, nothing very cool in the coral department. And are all pretty much un-killable.

Corals that I have tried and the outcome

I have tried virtually everything at one point or another. Over the last 9 months I have tried close to 100 frags. Various Montis, Acroporas, Duncans, Acans, Gonis, Favias, Stylos, Pocilloporas, Alveoporas, Euphyllias, Turbinarias, Trachyphyllias and others that have failed... even Ricordeas and other softies.

Most LPS simply "fade" away after I get them. They completely open up once in the tank and look good for a few days. Then they slowly recede and just shrivel up smaller and smaller until the polyp(s) is just gone. This usually takes about a month or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes less. Euphyllias always end up with polyp bailout.

SPS have good polyp extension for a few days then slowly come out less and less. Then I usually get RTN or STN.

I have specifically tried a ton of Acan frags... they are one of my favorites. So I really would like to focus on these at the moment. When I get the frag, the polyps are large and fluffy for a few days. Then they very slowly get smaller and smaller over a few weeks... exposing more and more of the skeleton. The best I can describe is that they simply shrink in size until there isn't much left. Their color stays 100% perfect throughout this process. Even when there is next to nothing left of the coral, its color is VERY vivid. I feed them a couple times/week... Reef-Roids and/or mysis shrimp. They are always located on the sand bed. I have tried different light intensities, for a couple of weeks at a time, and see absolutely zero difference. I have gone to each extreme and everywhere in between. Mp10's are set up at each end of the tank. One towards the back and the opposite one towards the front. I run 25 - 50% Reef Crest mode in anti-sync mode. My rock work is setup linear so there is room the length of the tank in the front and the back. So I have really good water circulation. I have tried lower settings, higher settings... same results. My Acans are located near the ends where flow is the least. But have tried them in different locations to see if I can get more life out of them.

It doesn't seem to matter if I dip them, how I acclimate them etc... same outcome every time. Here are some images, for reference, of my latest frags. As you can see, the Acans still have nice color, but simply just shrivel away. I don't typically have the frags all crammed together like this, but placed them on this ledge for picture taking.


These Acans are all 3 weeks old
Nice and puffy when placed in tank, with excellent feeder tentacle extension. They looked decent for about 5-7 days... then started receding.

Candy Cane... not much left of it. Also about 3 weeks old.

Bowers 3 weeks old:

• Nice and puffy when I put them in the tank.. and were so for about 7 days. Then slowly started shriveling up/receding.

3 weeks old

• Left: A freebie that I'm not sure what it was... chalice of some sorts.
• Right: Poker Star monti - I'm not sure if it's bleached or what... but it has always been on the bed. It's kind of just a dull grey now with zero polyp extension. Started fading about 7-10 days after placing it in the tank.

 

[saltyphish]

I wonder if your tank is running to clean. My understanding and anyone feel free to correct me but in ultra lean nutrient systems alk should be running closer to 7. How often were you feeding them?

 

[The Kahnasaur]

All of your parameters seem to check out. How high up are your lights from your sand bed? Acans often thrive under low light and yours can be a beast, but you do have it tuned down a lot so this is unlikely the cause. Also, what salt are you using? I doubt it's the salt, but just curious. How often do you feed? Not sure if it's the case, but some LPS sometimes like a slightly dirtier tank that has some phosphates and nitrates. However, if you're getting a little hair algae and cyano, you probably do have slight amounts of both that are just being absorbed and not released into the water. The fact that you're losing everything within about a weeks time makes me lean towards something being messed up with the water chemistry, but I have no answers for what it could be.

 

[leptang]

Stop tweeking the parameters as frequent as you are. Try limewater to keep alk/CA consistent. Stop water changes to every month probably to ten %. And note any changes. Stability is the key.
Feed more

 

[Broadfield]

I wonder if your tank is running to clean. My understanding and anyone feel free to correct me but in ultra lean nutrient systems alk should be running closer to 7. How often were you feeding them?

I typically feed twice per week. I too wonder if it is too clean, but I notice that GHA starts to get more out of hand if I lay off the GFO, skimming etc. Is there a way to maintain a higher nutrient level without the nuisance algae?

All of your parameters seem to check out. How high up are your lights from your sand bed? Acans often thrive under low light and yours can be a beast, but you do have it tuned down a lot so this is unlikely the cause. Also, what salt are you using? I doubt it's the salt, but just curious. How often do you feed? Not sure if it's the case, but some LPS sometimes like a slightly dirtier tank that has some phosphates and nitrates. However, if you're getting a little hair algae and cyano, you probably do have slight amounts of both that are just being absorbed and not released into the water. The fact that you're losing everything within about a weeks time makes me lean towards something being messed up with the water chemistry, but I have no answers for what it could be.

• The Hydra 52's are 18" off the sand bed.
• I use Aqua Craft Bio-Sea salt

 

[Exodus]

Everything looks fine, the AI Fixtures I have always had a hard time getting them honed in properly, the biggest thing about keeping Corals successfully is stability, so stop tweeking things! Just let it roll. If Acans are important to you then understanding what makes that particular LPS thrive. LPS & SPS are completely the opposite when it comes to what they need so trying to keep both in a tank and make conditions adequate for both is challenging and even more so the smaller the tank. SPS wants bright light and high flow, LPS Want low light and low flow. My suggestion would be if Acans are what you are wanting the most, then move them all to the bottom of your tank and ensure there is very little flow down there (Might want to rid yourself of that cyano first) move UV/V/RB/DB up to 75% and keep the others where you have them over the next couple weeks keep bumping those up till you have them at a 100% (They are not what fries corals thats W & G) then I suggest start off once a week hand feeding your Acans(Not necessary but it will give noticeable growth) and be patient. Follow those steps and in 6 months most your Acan Colonies I see in those pictures will most likely double. just my 2 cents

 

[leptang]

I typically feed twice per week. I too wonder if it is too clean, but I notice that GHA starts to get more out of hand if I lay off the GFO, skimming etc. Is there a way to maintain a higher nutrient level without the nuisance algae?

• The Hydra 52's are 18" off the sand bed.
• I use Aqua Craft Bio-Sea salt

I've learned that algae doesn't grow on top of of bacteria or any other living creatures. When cleaning the glass a day later algea grows. Point is if your rock is alive it should combat algae and you should not worry to much about (super low phosphate levels) but then again to much phosphate will block calcification

 

[reynaldoramon]

I think you need to consider dinos. What caught my eye was when you said your cyano decreases at night then build back up over the daytime.
That's Dino behavior. Any one else on this topic? Is this cyano brown?

 

[ZoaCollector]

Could be stray voltage, just for good measure you should get the plug that reduces stray voltage. They're pretty cheap and you can find them at any aqua store online.

 

[ZoaCollector]

Also for sps a calcium reactor dialed in correctly works wonders in keeping things stable. Get a dual chamber.

 

[Broadfield]

I think you need to consider dinos. What caught my eye was when you said your cyano decreases at night then build back up over the daytime.
That's Dino behavior. Any one else on this topic? Is this cyano brown?

Well, under my light spectrum it's a deep burgundy color... I'm running very little white. I imagine it may indeed be more brown with my whites turned up more. I'll have to test that that theory in a few days. I just did a water change, so it typically won't start showing back up again for a few days. Like I said though, it's pretty minimal when it is there. I may indeed be misidentifying it. I had a cyano issue on my previous tank... where it would form a mat and get stringy. This appears to be the same color... *However*, my old tank I ran closer to a 14k spectrum.

 

[Broadfield]

Could be stray voltage, just for good measure you should get the plug that reduces stray voltage. They're pretty cheap and you can find them at any aqua store online.

Grabbing my DMM right now "for good measure"... no pun intended!

 

[Broadfield]

Could be stray voltage, just for good measure you should get the plug that reduces stray voltage. They're pretty cheap and you can find them at any aqua store online.

Measured .8 volts... I think I'm good lol.

 

[saltyphish]

Cyano has the same behavior as dinos/ It will be more spread out during the day and disappears at night or close to it. Not saying it's not dinos since they do give off a toxic substance that can and will kill coral and could explain some things.

 

[reef208]

It's got to be something with your lighting, flow, temperature, or water quality, but I'm drawing a blank given all your parameters seem fine.


Do you see any parasites on the coral? Have you ever used any kind of medications in the tank? Where did you get your macro dry rock from and how did you cure it?

I'll keep thinking about this.

 

[Daytonareefing]

I can tell you right now that more than likely you have way to much lighting I have sps in a 30 gallon tank and run a one hydra 26 at 50% set at 14k and my corals do very well with a Apex just like you. Are you using a skimmer and a refugium?

 

[reef208]

I can tell you right now that more than likely you have way to much lighting I have sps in a 30 gallon tank and run a one hydra 26 at 50% set at 14k and my corals do very well with a Apex just like you. Are you using a skimmer and a refugium?

Dropping down two just one light might be a good place to start.

 

[Daytonareefing]

forsure.

 

[hart24601]

There definitely seems to be something strange going on. That type of death IME is not from too much light, at least not that I have seen with LPS receding like that and SPS STN. I would consider running a Triton test to see if anything pops out. I like the consistency of instant ocean salt FWIW. It would be nice to see a little bit of nitrate in there too, at least a detectable level. Ever run polyfilters or anything for heavy metals?

 

[reynaldoramon]

I use Reef Crystals myself. Never heard of the salt your using....which means absolutely nothing.... Just saying.