Recommended size lionfish to start off

Goodair · May 4, 2019

I got an email alert from LiveAquaria that they received some radiata lionfish in stock, but they are small (1.5-3").
My marine beta is out of the QT and in DT now so I'm starting to look into getting the lionfish. Thing is... with one that small, I'm not sure if its better out to wait out for some medium sized ones, can be from different sellers.
Are the chances of survival different with different size lions, either a radiata or antenata (the medium bodied ones). Also, does size make a difference on converting to frozen food. I plan on doing a mixed live/dead feeding, but going full live only gets to be rather expensive. And lastly, do people tend to have a long life expectancy rate with the medium sized lion. The seem to be the less popular of all the types but never understood why.

** I do not have a tank to support a large one long term and not a fan of the dwarf.**

lion king · May 5, 2019

You know what I'm going to say, and I know you want some other opinions, you may try posting in the fish discussion section for more exposure. There are challenges to either small or larger, the small ones are tough to get food small enough to begin with and they can be extremely timid to feed. I would use a rigid stick to herd the ghostie or guppie towards the lion and help him corral him in. I like getting small ones as your reward is so great when they grow up. A more mature one will definitely be harder to get to eat dead food, I don't really know of anyone who has kept these long term on a dead only diet. Make sure to treat with general cure as soon as you fatten him up. I think you read through my "Argument for feeding live foods". My antennata eats krill and an occasional chunk of silversides, he loves to hunt down live fish, and get his fill of live ghosties. Here's a pic I took today, he's 7", he was about 3" when I got him 6 years ago. I would at 7" in captivity he's likely full grown.

lion king · May 5, 2019

I found a pic when he was a little boy. hehe

Goodair · May 5, 2019

I agree with your live food argument. What concerns me is the live guarantee on those types of fish are limited to just arrival, and shipping from california to new jersey seems long. If smaller lions arrive and die the next day because of stress/meds, but medium have a better shot of living, then its worth waiting.
I've tried to get one locally with no success so I am looking into other options.
I'll repost this on fish discussion for some more feedback, this section seems to have very few active members.

Goodair · May 5, 2019

lion king said:
I found a pic when he was a little boy. hehe

Wow he really grew! Look like a completely different fish.

lion king · May 5, 2019

Every lion I've tried from liveaquaria died with a day or two, personally, I'd try and find another source. This place is in CA also, https://fishybusinessaquatics.com/fish/lionfish/radiata-lion-pterois-radiata/ The shipping method is the same regardless of where they are going, but you are right that the smaller ones may be more delicate to transport. Here's a place to check out too, http://www.pacificislandaqua.com/store/p678/Antennata_Lionfish.html I think these guys even give a 7 day guarantee. Don't get so caught up on the guarantee, you will still be out the shipping, and to take them up on a replacement, you will pay shipping again. Do you have a lfs you can get to special order you one.

Goodair · May 5, 2019

Put a order for one 2 months ago, they brought in an antenata but it died in the store.

There was a guy who had access to suppliers on a local forum and he saw a radiata but it was gone quick.

lion king · May 5, 2019

The smallest lion I have ever seen. He was 1.5", grew to over 4" in a couple years time, them died in a velvet outbreak. He was my least active and most difficult lion to feed, he never really took any dead food other than the occasional first bite at feeding, then would refuse. Even fresh dead ghosties was mostly a no go for this guy.

The reason you don't see these guys around, is because they are difficult to keep, it certainly isn't because of their lack of beauty. Most people have the impression of lions being rather sedentary, not mine, but the radiata was quite lazy and slow to feed. I also had a betta with him that did escape before the velvet outbreak, which will gladly hunt down live food, so your live food budget could double.

WMR · May 5, 2019

I agree with lion king 8,000 %, after all he is the lion king! I would look for those particular species at your LFS, most of the established stores will carry them or can special order them for you, cut out the worry of shipping. When I was in the business, I would carry all the lions, give the people what they want. We would treat them externally, I would get them feeding on ghost shrimp first, then try frozen food, the Volitans would eat almost anything, but, the other lions we would feed ghost shrimp & feeder fish. Watch the marine betta when feeding, competition for food

Goodair · May 5, 2019

Do you guys recommend a small volitan for a few years and once he is too big, trade him and then go for a more difficult one? I'm only a few months into this hobby so there is still allot I haven't dealt with. I saw a big beauty come in my lfs and he got sold the next day so it should find a new home rather quickly.

lion king · May 5, 2019

In all fairness, a large volitan is not the easiest fish to rehome. Considering the invasion and all, wholesalers are selling small ones for as little as $7. A recent poll on r2r revealed that 80% of our members have tanks less than 100g, in the real world, that's more like 90%. Considering a large volitan can also make a meal of many of the fish kept in the most common sized tanks, lfs around here wont even take them in.

Remind me again what size tank, to be comfortable I would recommend at least a 150g, they are fish that do like a taller tank; a 90g could probably get you 4-5 years, maybe.

Goodair · May 5, 2019

It's a 90 gal, alot of rock, caves and overhangs.

lion king · May 5, 2019

Look I'm a realist, there are not enough tanks in the world to support the life that is being trafficked from the ocean, period. With that being said, let's play in the grey area for a while. Since you are new in the hobby, and even if not; the radiata or antennata will be challenging and can even be discouraging. Be mindful of the size of your betta, as a volitan will munch what ever it can fit in it's mouth. This is what I would do, I would get a 3" volitan lion, you figure 5 years beats the guaranteed death within a year of the other 99.8%.

Goodair · May 5, 2019

I'll prob be doing that. This whole post started because of threads with people having a hard time keeping them. And that is only the few people who talk about it, most people dont say anything, so I was unsure if it was a good idea to go straight for a harder to keep lion.
The beta is prob 5 inches, he is a good size.
Thank you.

Goodair · Jun 3, 2019

Is mysis and krill enough, or should I mix something else in the diet, until he gets some size? Got a baby lion, prob 2 inches. Fish store claimed it is a black/colored volitan, but I can't tell if it is or not.

lion king · Jun 3, 2019

Post a pic. Mysis really isn't going to cut it unless you are able to get him to feed from the end of a baster, a 2" volitan could eat about a 1/2 a cube at a feeding. PE mysis or even jumbo mysis would be a better choice, I would still put the PE mysis in a turkey baster. Any chunks of various seafoods would be good, just cut into bite sized pieces. I fed my volitan squid tentacles tonight, he eats squid, octopus, scallop, shrimp, siversides, silver fish, and what ever he snags from the water column while I'm feeding the other tank. I do feed krill, but very sparingly.

I use a feeding stick, are you dropping the food in the tank and letting him catch. I have had volitans that I would turn the flow off and drop chunks in front of him and he would catch it while floating in the water column, this is also how I fed when using a turkey baster. It would be unusual if they ever eat off the substrate.

Just be careful of not getting him locked into eating krill only.

Goodair · Jun 3, 2019

Goodair · Jun 3, 2019

Tank has a sponge filter so the flow is very weak. Yesterday I poured a lil bit of brine, he caught it in the water column. Today I did the same thing, he ate what was still in the water column, not not what hit the floor. I take the baster, suck it up and throw it back in the water till he stops eating.
Out of curiosity, I cut off tiny pieces from some LRS pack i use to feed the beta, so not sure exactly what i was cutting. Threw them in in front of yhe lion, he ate it even when it hit the floor. (bare bottom qt)
I got krill, blood worms, and mysis from when I was having a hard time feeding the marine beta when he was new, and my tomani tang that ended up dying. Once a week, ill throw in some ghost shrimp to the DP as a treat, not really sure what I'd be able to find thats tiny to give the lion

lion king · Jun 4, 2019

I feed my lions about 3 times a week, every 2 to 3 days. Alot of volitans take to eating a variety of dead foods pretty easily, I don't feed my volitan any live food. I've kept volitans over 10 years and rehomed still thriving on dead food only. You just want to make sure he is getting enough, you should see a nice bulge in his belly after feeding. If you are feeding small pieces of food, he will stop eating when he is full, and the likelihood of overfeeding will be small. Lions that usually die to bloat, which is what happens when overfed, is usually due to large food items, As lions can put down large pieces of food, I've seen people feed them full whole pieces of silversides, the last piece is what kills them. My volitan is 12" and as thick as my forearm and I cut silversides into 2 to 3 pieces. The volitan may pick up a piece of food here or there when it 1st hits the bottom, or if it just swirls a little; but for the most part they don't. Any of the chunks in the LRS will be good, just cut them into pieces appropriate for your size lion.