Who has to Go?

[Wandering Albatross]

Good evening all, I have a list of a few more fish I’d like to plan a tank for, having narrowed down from my larger lists, and I’m trying to determine who I’ll have to strike from the list. Everyone here I want to have at some point. I really want a lion, but the tank mates I would in theory be putting him with are reported to pick at lions, and others that I want are too small and would become expensive snacks.

Assume a 240g 7 footer (singles of all but angel and/or eel)

Zebra eel
Emperor angel
Achilles/Clown/gold rim/hippo tang/sailfin (only 1, in order, most wanted 1st)
Humu/clown trigger
Lionfish
Dogface/stars and stripes puffer
Compatible grouper

Open to, if applicable:

Large compatible wrasse
Foxface
Compatible butterfly
Second eel type (smaller moray perhaps)
Maroon clowns with nem
Sweet lips
Parrotfish
Batfish
Flounder
Dwarf angels
Shark/ray (expect neither given the footprint as well as picking nature of some primary stock, but thought I’d throw it out there)

Much of my research says puffers, triggers, and sometimes butterflies can/will nip at lionfish fins because of their slow movement and flowy nature. Are those the only ones I’d in theory need to pull from this stocking in order to pretty safely keep the lion, or am I missing someone? That kills nearly half my stock alone. If I pulled the lion, made a species only for him, would the rest work out? Could I add from my second list, or add several options from my first to create for example, a tang gang? This is the grow out for the big boy tank, starting with the fish I still really want and filling in the cracks if applicable. All fish would be added small in either several medium batches or one large batch, depending on final tank quantity and availability.

Thoughts?

 

[Zach136378]

NO POWDER BLUE HATE THEM THEY WIPE OUT THE WHOLE TANK. Groupers are almost always agressive but if that’s not a problem keep them. Love angels so keep emperor. Eels are really annoying if you don’t have a proper good lid avoid if not I don’t see why not. Sharks I love I would go for a shark over a ray. For a shark epullate or bamboo are by far the best. Marmalades are way more succeptible to infections on their belly. I would not keep a butterfly with one or a flounder or lion fish. Angelfish are hit or miss with sharks but I don’t find them to be a problem. NO PUFFERS OR TRIGGERS WITH SHARK. The rest of the fish on the list should be fine with the shark though

 

[Wandering Albatross]

NO POWDER BLUE HATE THEM THEY WIPE OUT THE WHOLE TANK. Groupers are almost always agressive but if that’s not a problem keep them. Love angels so keep emperor. Eels are really annoying if you don’t have a proper good lid avoid if not I don’t see why not. Sharks I love I would go for a shark over a ray. For a shark epullate or bamboo are by far the best. Marmalades are way more succeptible to infections on their belly. I would not keep a butterfly with one or a flounder or lion fish. Angelfish are hit or miss with sharks but I don’t find them to be a problem. NO PUFFERS OR TRIGGERS WITH SHARK. The rest of the fish on the list should be fine with the shark though

I was thinking blue hippo, not powder blue, I’ve heard way too much about them.

I’m going for a big boy aggressive tank so the aggression of the grouper is okay if the others can hold their own.

Some kind of Eel is a non-negotiable, zebra first, then if possible, a jewel moray, skeletor, or snowflake. Tank will have an eel proof lid by default so no worries.

Probably no shark or ray if it’ll take out that much of my stock to have. Either of those would probably be better off in a wider tank anyway, this would be 30” wide, I was just poking to see if anyone has had success keeping either as babies for a couple years in this type of setup.

The first list is my primary stock plan, at this point the lion is looking rather iffy. If I strike him from the main list, who all from the second would you add in his place, assuming nothing else was struck? What if I traded the big grouper for a marine Berta? Could I do 3-4 of the tangs on my list together, or would that be too much with the other stock? What about both triggers, or a regal angel?

 

[exnisstech]

Sounds like a very challenging tank with a lot of big aggressive fish. I really don't have much to offer because i can't stand aggression in my tanks. I will say I lost a 30" zebra moray once to a 3" huma trigger. The trigger started picking at the moray and it stopped eating. That little trigger was the bravest little sob I've ever had in a tank. He would chase 6-7" tangs away from the nori clip so he could have it all.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Sounds like a very challenging tank with a lot of big aggressive fish. I really don't have much to offer because i can't stand aggression on my tanks. I will say I lost a 30" zebra moray to a 3" huma trigger. The trigger started picking at the moray and it stopped eating. That little trigger was the bravest little sob I've ever had in a tank. He would chase 6-7" tangs away from the nori clip so he could have it all.

The goal is for everyone to be sturdy so it'd be Mutually Assured Destruction to fight, and they might not. Of course, nothing is perfect in our tanks, and they don't always work out the way we wish they would. Part of the reason of drastically limiting my stocking compared to usual, is due to the aggressive natures of those involved.

That's interesting, I though humus were relatively peaceful (by trigger standards), clown I'd expect to be an a** as it got bigger. Wonder if it was a one-off bad personality fish, or if not enough people keep them together to witness this kind of behavior. This is the first I've heard of a fish consciously picking at an eel. Was the eel established first, or was he a later addition?

 

[exnisstech]

The eel was in first and was pretty large when added. I don't remember how long I had it in before adding the little trigger. It may very well just been a one off thing with the trigger. It wouldn't be uncommon for fish of the same species to act differently. Maybe if I had some more aggressive fish in with the trigger it may have behaved differently? I had all peaceful fish so the trigger may have seized the opportunity to take charge with no opposition. Reading your mutually assured destruction comment it makes sense now that I think about it.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

The eel was in first and was pretty large when added. I don't remember how long I had it in before adding the little trigger. It may very well just been a one off thing with the trigger. It wouldn't be uncommon for fish of the same species to act differently. Maybe if I had some more aggressive fish in with the trigger it may have behaved differently? I had all peaceful fish so the trigger may have seized the opportunity to take charge with no opposition. Reading your mutually assured destruction comment it makes sense now that I think about it.

Don't know if it'll work out that way, but that's the idea. Everyone scraps first thing, realize they're all big dogs, settle down with a hierarchy and coexist. I've heard of a case where a foxface was added first and large, got well established in the whole tank solo, then the aggressive fish were added tiny. Between the size and spines of the foxface, he was the dominant fish, even though he wasn't anywhere near as aggressive. By default, he kept the others in line, and he wasn't challenged because of his venom. Granted, I don't know what happened as they grew up, and that may have been a one-off too, but the concept is fascinating. If I can use one relatively harmless, or not as aggressive larger fish to be the tank boss, where he keeps order without doing real damage, that would be ideal.

 

[smitten with ocean life]

just had to say that the title cracked me up because that was what my dad always would say when we were on a road trip and we were getting near a rest area

 

[Zach136378]

I have got an 11 to 12 inch epullate shark in my 180 gallon he is fine but I have to make the tank all about him. This means he needs loads of sandbed with big caves. In the tank I have a marine betta, passer angel, red breasted wrasse, coral beauty, bi color angel and a pair or square anthias

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I have got an 11 to 12 inch epullate shark in my 180 gallon he is fine but I have to make the tank all about him. This means he needs loads of sandbed with big caves. In the tank I have a marine betta, passer angel, red breasted wrasse, coral beauty, bi color angel and a pair or square anthias

I don't mind a decently open sand bed or lots of large caves, but my real concern was something picking out his eyes (trigger/puffer/angel/wrasse/butterfly), and him being able to get around when he's full grown. They're supposed to get nearly 30" long, my tank would only be that wide, seems a little cramped for him turning-wise. Can't go wider because 30" barely fits through the door here.

 

[Zach136378]

I don't mind a decently open sand bed or lots of large caves, but my real concern was something picking out his eyes (trigger/puffer/angel/wrasse/butterfly), and him being able to get around when he's full grown. They're supposed to get nearly 30" long, my tank would only be that wide, seems a little cramped for him turning-wise. Can't go wider because 30" barely fits through the door here.

Depends on what species you get of epullate shark. The other option is a marmalade although they have VERY sensitive bellies however I have never seen one in captivity bigger than 18 inches I don’t think many epullates can get 30 inches although it is possible. I would normally see epullates max at around 24 to 26 inches but can be as small as 20 inches.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Depends on what species you get of epullate shark. The other option is a marmalade although they have VERY sensitive bellies however I have never seen one in captivity bigger than 18 inches I don’t think many epullates can get 30 inches although it is possible. I would normally see epullates max at around 24 to 26 inches but can be as small as 20 inches.

Size wise if they stay slightly smaller in tanks that’s great, but if his eyes will be nipped out by the trigger, puffer, or angel, it’s not fair for him.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Could I in theory go:

• 1-2 Zebra eel/s
• Achilles/clown tang + sailfin tang + blue hippo/gem tang
• Emperor angel
• Humu and/or clown trigger
• Dogface puffer or lionfish
• At least one large wrasse
• Pair of maroon clowns

Can go down to 1 tang if it means both triggers, or more wrasse. Assume oversized filtration.

 

[dustin.emmanuel]

Could I in theory go:

• 1-2 Zebra eel/s
• Achilles/clown tang + sailfin tang + blue hippo/gem tang
• Emperor angel
• Humu and/or clown trigger
• Dogface puffer or lionfish
• At least one large wrasse
• Pair of maroon clowns

Can go down to 1 tang if it means both triggers, or more wrasse. Assume oversized filtration.

Personally, for tang I would go for achilles, gem, hippo so they have different body shaped. For trigger, I'll go with clown cuz they look better but they can get huge. Trouble deciding for dogface or lionfish, cuz their personality is a bit similar with food. Large wrasse: harlequin tusk, formosa, some kind of hogfish would be good, dragon wrasse. This is what I would do for a fowlr. Plus I dont have experience with these fish haha

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Personally, for tang I would go for achilles, gem, hippo so they have different body shaped. For trigger, I'll go with clown cuz they look better but they can get huge. Trouble deciding for dogface or lionfish, cuz their personality is a bit similar with food. Large wrasse: harlequin tusk, formosa, some kind of hogfish would be good, dragon wrasse. This is what I would do for a fowlr. Plus I dont have experience with these fish haha

I want the Achilles most, but I worry about him getting sick. That’s a very expensive fish to get sick and not recover. Some sources say they’re actually relatively peaceful (by tang standards), and if that were the case, will he be okay with the trigger? Clown triggers look so cool but I’ve heard mixed reviews.

 

[dustin.emmanuel]

I want the Achilles most, but I worry about him getting sick. That’s a very expensive fish to get sick and not recover. Some sources say they’re actually relatively peaceful (by tang standards), and if that were the case, will he be okay with the trigger? Clown triggers look so cool but I’ve heard mixed reviews.

I never kept them before so i'm not sure. If you're worried about the trigger, maybe you could go for the less aggressive ones like blue throat or niger. For the achilles or in fact other livestock, you could get it from Dr. Reef since they treat your fish from parasites. I got good experience from them.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I never kept them before so i'm not sure. If you're worried about the trigger, maybe you could go for the less aggressive ones like blue throat or niger. For the achilles or in fact other livestock, you could get it from Dr. Reef since they treat your fish from parasites. I got good experience from them.

Perhaps, but it’ll jack the price considerably of an already difficult to justify/risk fish. Would also mean I’d have to quarantine or buy everything else quarantined too, which further increases total spent to have this fish. It’s really too bad the good looking ones are always either super fragile or super aggressive.