Red Sea Reef "controller" just introduced - this is huge...!

[spsick]

It is my opinion that RS products (across the entire line) are nice looking and marketed as premium quality with a premium price, when in reality they are low to mediocre quality "good enough for the average person" products. Engineered for margin, not quality. It is a volume business model optimized around acceptable failure rates and tightly controlled warranty and customer service patterns rather than overbuilt reliability and true customer service.

Example:
ReefMat motors are undersized and incur a high failure rate. Replacement motors are sold at ~$25, but likely cost $3 or less to source. Using a cheaper, weaker motor reduces unit cost and shipping weight. Warranty replacements are a controlled and an acceptable loss compared to the margin saved across total production. In reality (in any vertical) most users simply buy spares or entire new units rather than pursue warranty claims. So the poor design is actually a profit center, with some user's even seeing "parts" availability as a customer service bonus.

The model may work for some, especially those who don't know any better, or those who are enamored with popular brand names, etc. It is not their "margin" that bothers me, it is the lack of product quality and true customer care for the price that puts me off.

It is just not a company I would choose to do business with if I have other options, as I don't like the business model.

Well articulated. I’m sure they intentionally make it a pain to get stuff warranted (if the tank failures is any indication)…

 

[Naekuh]

So a LOT cheaper than an APEX

how is this cheaper?

The Apex Jr, which is simular to the base, is still cheaper and gives you the same options as the cheaper one.
The Apex Pro, has a TON more scalability with FMM ports, and comes with a lot more including a EBB, so its more expensive then the largest one.

And even then why compare with APEX.
This Red Sea unit will get straight up slaughtered by HYDROS.

Well articulated. I’m sure they intentionally make it a pain to get stuff warranted (if the tank failures is any indication)…

Its amazing how they still haven't fixed there tank issue after so long.
I was originally wanting a Reefer Many years ago, but this was a problem. I went IM with Eurobracing, because it was that time where u had to get your tanks eurobraced, just because anything with the words EURO means its high quality? :X (sarcasm) but it was during the period in our hobby where it wasn't fully premium unless it was eurobraced.

And here my tank now is fully established, and everything, and still Red sea has not fixed this issue.

Or, a lot of people are just flipping old red sea tanks, and not buying the fixed ones.

But either way, if you ask me will i ever buy a red sea tank... no.
Will i ever recommend someone to buy a red sea tank... still no.

 

[EliMelly]

Clock is ticking for this thread to be deleted and closed.

 

[smitten with ocean life]

why? i thought its all stayed polite so far

 

[GarrettDie4U]

From what I've read in this thread I wont ever be buying Red Sea new or used that's for sure

 

[BeanAnimal]

All of the above mentioned is correct. Yet a reputable centre for advice, Reef2Reef, continues to support and promote Red Sea endeavours.

I don’t have an issue with R2R accepting sponsorship. What does the criteria become? It is an extremely slippery slope to navigate. That they allow these conversations is enough for me.

 

[bvickery1974]

I threw the RS ATO system in the garbage. It was feast or famine. Either no top off or 4 gallons at a time. Not to mention, I switched out 4 probes in a single year (under warranty and prior to eventually going in the garbage) because their Chinese supplied probe kept malfunctioning. I can’t imagine this venture will go any differently.

It is my opinion that RS products (across the entire line) are nice looking and marketed as premium quality with a premium price, when in reality they are low to mediocre quality "good enough for the average person" products. Engineered for margin, not quality. It is a volume business model optimized around acceptable failure rates and tightly controlled warranty and customer service patterns rather than overbuilt reliability and true customer service.

Example:
ReefMat motors are undersized and incur a high failure rate. Replacement motors are sold at ~$25, but likely cost $3 or less to source. Using a cheaper, weaker motor reduces unit cost and shipping weight. Warranty replacements are a controlled and an acceptable loss compared to the margin saved across total production. In reality (in any vertical) most users simply buy spares or entire new units rather than pursue warranty claims. So the poor design is actually a profit center, with some user's even seeing "parts" availability as a customer service bonus.

The model may work for some, especially those who don't know any better, or those who are enamored with popular brand names, etc. It is not their "margin" that bothers me, it is the lack of product quality and true customer care for the price that puts me off.

It is just not a company I would choose to do business with if I have other options, as I don't like the business model.

Not meant to argue, but as I look into parts does seem RS doser isnt as bad. Or maybe just havent found people mentioning failures

 

[Reef Jedi]

Personally I wouldn’t do it. I do own a RedSea tank (strike me down now) and a roller mat from them. However everything else I won’t go near. Interesting concept. Funny if they introduce a water tester that works before the Maven.

 

[areefer01]

Funny if they introduce a water tester that works before the Maven.

Well, they sort of already do although they are manual. So yes, they have water testers ;)

 

[JonoH]

how is this cheaper?

The Apex Jr, which is simular to the base, is still cheaper and gives you the same options as the cheaper one.
The Apex Pro, has a TON more scalability with FMM ports, and comes with a lot more including a EBB, so its more expensive then the largest one.

And even then why compare with APEX.
This Red Sea unit will get straight up slaughtered by HYDROS.



Its amazing how they still haven't fixed there tank issue after so long.
I was originally wanting a Reefer Many years ago, but this was a problem. I went IM with Eurobracing, because it was that time where u had to get your tanks eurobraced, just because anything with the words EURO means its high quality? :X (sarcasm) but it was during the period in our hobby where it wasn't fully premium unless it was eurobraced.

And here my tank now is fully established, and everything, and still Red sea has not fixed this issue.

Or, a lot of people are just flipping old red sea tanks, and not buying the fixed ones.

But either way, if you ask me will i ever buy a red sea tank... no.
Will i ever recommend someone to buy a red sea tank... still no.

I should have prefaced this with 'In Australia'.

We dont have all the same options for Apex that you guys do over there - the world is bigger than just the USA - and unfortunately Apex and Hydros dont really seem to care that much about us over here.
Yes we can get Apex, but not to the same level (ie. the Apex Pro is the same cost but comes without the powerboard controls etc).
Hydros isnt an option over here at all.

Either way, i'm not a Red Sea Fan Boy...but also not a fan of bashing companies regardless.
While I would never buy a Red Sea tank (and have multiple friends over here that have had split Red Sea tanks) ... I do own some of their other products and they have all been great. (ReefMat, ReefWave, Dosing pumps).

This thread is about a controller...not sure why your making it about tanks.

 

[Naekuh]

This thread is about a controller...not sure why your making it about tanks.

i think its because people are judging them on quality of service from what they hear about them on tanks.

And if your limited in options like you are in your country, then i guess you have to play with what u are given.

 

[Ziggy17]

We dont have all the same options for Apex that you guys do over there - the world is bigger than just the USA - and unfortunately Apex and Hydros dont really seem to care that much about us over here.
Yes we can get Apex, but not to the same level (ie. the Apex Pro is the same cost but comes without the powerboard controls etc).
Hydros isnt an option over here at all.

Either way, i'm not a Red Sea Fan Boy...but also not a fan of bashing companies regardless.
While I would never buy a Red Sea tank (and have multiple friends over here that have had split Red Sea tanks) ... I do own some of their other products and they have all been great. (ReefMat, ReefWave, Dosing pumps).

This thread is about a controller...not sure why your making it about tanks.

i have a reefmat, no issues. I bought it well before my two tank disasters. But the second tank came with a free ATO kit. Sensors kept failing every month. Finally threw it in the garbage. Got tired of emailing Red Sea for a replacement. So for me, this is about the quality of their electronics and not tanks.

 

[JonoH]

7

i have a reefmat, no issues. I bought it well before my two tank disasters. But the second tank came with a free ATO kit. Sensors kept failing every month. Finally threw it in the garbage. Got tired of emailing Red Sea for a replacement. So for me, this is about the quality of their electronics and not tanks.

That's fair - i have always avoided their ATO just based off the bad reports of them.

Its funny actually as i'm regularly at my LFS, and they do push them a bit, i generally mention to people afterwards - to 'maybe google the ATO first before you purchase'!

Like anything new, only time will tell as to how accurate or good this is.

 

[Ziggy17]

That's fair - i have always avoided their ATO just based off the bad reports of them.

Its funny actually as i'm regularly at my LFS, and they do push them a bit, i generally mention to people afterwards - to 'maybe google the ATO first before you purchase'!

Like anything new, only time will tell as to how accurate or good this is.

If it makes you feel any better, we get totally hosed on pricing in Canada as well. In some cases, more than double the US cost.
Pricing Parody would be nice. A dollar is a dollar as long as you don’t spend it in a different country…….

 

[KrisReef]

Good to know their filter roller can talk to their dosing system so neither gets lonely. lol

I’d rather pick and chose optimal devices than live in any single ecosystem.

This is a fantastic observation and one that I would have been proud to post! Kudos on the humorous side of a sacred object, go in peace my friend.

I would only add that I do wonder if this new hardware is waterproof, but not mention why that question even came to mind?

 

[BryanM]

Awesome! Finally some leak detection to go along with the tanks! Oh I hope that doesn’t jinx me….. knocking on wood

Pure gold right here.

 

[KStatefan]

I think this is going to be a game changer...

What is this going to change?

 

[Waters]

Other than their tanks, I actually don't have any issues with RedSea. I have both their skimmers and reefmat, and have been using for years without any issues. That being said, this isn't on the same level as the other controllers as far as programmability. I will stick with my often broken down Apex lol.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Other than their tanks, I actually don't have any issues with RedSea. I have both their skimmers and reefmat, and have been using for years without any issues. That being said, this isn't on the same level as the other controllers as far as programmability. I will stick with my often broken down Apex lol.

My first tank was a Red Sea 20g AIO, and I personally never had any issues with that tank

 

[Pals]

I’m actually looking forward to this RS lineup launch.
I have quite a number of apex hardware pieces. Most of them are ok but I wouldn’t say all are perfect.
My Trident NP is highly problematic. Never gave reliable readings (swung in the range 10-60) for past the 6 months since I bought it. Brought it to the service centre several times and they couldn’t fix. The readings finally become more consistent since the recent firmware update.
DOS doser is also not hard to use and noisy on the first.
The ORP probe accuracy also drifts after few months.
Same problem as for the LLS liquid level sensor. Snail can crawl into its housing as well.

I hope the RS probes can be more lasting and accurate, and that salinity measurement can be made more affordable.
The RS Reefdoser that I have so far works like a charm.