Reef Breeders Bricked

NanoSteam

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Boy howdy like surface of the sun. This should help my hair algae. Lol! I moved them up super high and will just unplug and plug in until new light gets here. Actually looks ok in photo. In person its bright.

b115250c-650a-4bb2-bece-5c1d5681480b.jpg

So they're stuck at 50% now at a white spectrum? What lights did you go with?
 

wiriza01

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+1 In the same boat… well except found this thread so will be contacting tomorrow…
i understand the coms stance and truly hope it is limited to us few users.

I don’t understand how challenging it was or wasn’t from a software point of view, and if it was known or wasn’t known during testing, but the ramifications of bricking or blasting the lights (we all know how sensitive corals may be) is disconcerting. I get the “it is the consumer fault for not following instructions” but is it though?

There is no other app or telnet, ssh, some method to clear the stated value from a pc or other? The discounted module and or backend change cost for a product change (was not able to log on to app, honestly i thought company went belly up).

In that hypothetical world we would be in a much worst spot so will concede for now and hope there is an alternative solution.
 
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Instead of helping me you were curt. I told you the error i was getting and all you wrote was "we sent emails". No help at all.

So I am sorry if i am coming off a little terse.

I have never heard of a light being bricked over an app. I never even thought that would be a thing. I'm glad I'm an isolated case. Because this really sucks. Not having working lights because of an app. Madness.

d3c347c3-4e4c-4476-92ed-8526e0c7bc46.jpg
As I mentioned earlier, we have not yet figured out how to complete the manual app migration on our end now that the old app has been fully closed. We are actively working on it, but at the moment there is no way for us to perform that process in the background. That was our original plan, and we fully expected it to work, but we did not realize it would be as difficult as it turned out to be until we attempted it firsthand.

Because of that setback, we came up with a new solution within the last 1 or 2 hours to give customers a fast and reliable option. We are offering a replacement app board at an 83% discount so people can get their lights working again without needing to wait for a manual migration. The purpose of the discount is simply to provide the quickest and most practical fix, not to profit from the situation.

When you first reached out, the only information I had was that we did not yet have a workable solution. My choices were to tell you that directly or to wait and not respond until something was finalized. I chose to answer right away because I felt clear and immediate communication was better than silence. Maybe waiting would have come across differently, but based on what I knew at the time, being direct seemed like the most respectful approach.

For context, ReefBreeders is a small company, and only a few of us handle all of the day to day operations. We put most of our resources into improving our products, so communication is handled personally by us. I tend to be very direct because I work through a large number of requests daily, and I try to give people clear information without wasting anyone’s time. It is never meant to come across as rude or dismissive.
Duh Liam. Where...do...I...send...the..money...for ...the...new... board? Sheesh. Also instructions on how to fix. Also stop with the poor me small business thing. The light is bricked it should 100% be on you not the consumer. But here i am you got me by the...um, you know.
 
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Instead of helping me you were curt. I told you the error i was getting and all you wrote was "we sent emails". No help at all.

So I am sorry if i am coming off a little terse.

I have never heard of a light being bricked over an app. I never even thought that would be a thing. I'm glad I'm an isolated case. Because this really sucks. Not having working lights because of an app. Madness.

d3c347c3-4e4c-4476-92ed-8526e0c7bc46.jpg
As I mentioned earlier, we have not yet figured out how to complete the manual app migration on our end now that the old app has been fully closed. We are actively working on it, but at the moment there is no way for us to perform that process in the background. That was our original plan, and we fully expected it to work, but we did not realize it would be as difficult as it turned out to be until we attempted it firsthand.

Because of that setback, we came up with a new solution within the last 1 or 2 hours to give customers a fast and reliable option. We are offering a replacement app board at an 83% discount so people can get their lights working again without needing to wait for a manual migration. The purpose of the discount is simply to provide the quickest and most practical fix, not to profit from the situation.

When you first reached out, the only information I had was that we did not yet have a workable solution. My choices were to tell you that directly or to wait and not respond until something was finalized. I chose to answer right away because I felt clear and immediate communication was better than silence. Maybe waiting would have come across differently, but based on what I knew at the time, being direct seemed like the most respectful approach.

For context, ReefBreeders is a small company, and only a few of us handle all of the day to day operations. We put most of our resources into improving our products, so communication is handled personally by us. I tend to be very direct because I work through a large number of requests daily, and I try to give people clear information without wasting anyone’s time. It is never meant to come across as rude or dismissive.
Duh Liam. Where...do...I...send...the..money...for ...the...new... board? Sheesh. Also instructions on how to fix. Also stop with the poor me small business thing. The light is bricked it should 100% be on you not the consumer. But here i am you got me by the...um, you know.
Got it on the website here. Throw me a code for the discount? I need two. So at least the new owner can get them connected to the app. Smh.

f5459f22-eb37-407b-a64f-c7ab0c626aa8.jpg
 
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Instead of helping me you were curt. I told you the error i was getting and all you wrote was "we sent emails". No help at all.

So I am sorry if i am coming off a little terse.

I have never heard of a light being bricked over an app. I never even thought that would be a thing. I'm glad I'm an isolated case. Because this really sucks. Not having working lights because of an app. Madness.

d3c347c3-4e4c-4476-92ed-8526e0c7bc46.jpg
As I mentioned earlier, we have not yet figured out how to complete the manual app migration on our end now that the old app has been fully closed. We are actively working on it, but at the moment there is no way for us to perform that process in the background. That was our original plan, and we fully expected it to work, but we did not realize it would be as difficult as it turned out to be until we attempted it firsthand.

Because of that setback, we came up with a new solution within the last 1 or 2 hours to give customers a fast and reliable option. We are offering a replacement app board at an 83% discount so people can get their lights working again without needing to wait for a manual migration. The purpose of the discount is simply to provide the quickest and most practical fix, not to profit from the situation.

When you first reached out, the only information I had was that we did not yet have a workable solution. My choices were to tell you that directly or to wait and not respond until something was finalized. I chose to answer right away because I felt clear and immediate communication was better than silence. Maybe waiting would have come across differently, but based on what I knew at the time, being direct seemed like the most respectful approach.

For context, ReefBreeders is a small company, and only a few of us handle all of the day to day operations. We put most of our resources into improving our products, so communication is handled personally by us. I tend to be very direct because I work through a large number of requests daily, and I try to give people clear information without wasting anyone’s time. It is never meant to come across as rude or dismissive.
Duh Liam. Where...do...I...send...the..money...for ...the...new... board? Sheesh. Also instructions on how to fix. Also stop with the poor me small business thing. The light is bricked it should 100% be on you not the consumer. But here i am you got me by the...um, you know.
Got it on the website here. Throw me a code for the discount? I need two. So at least the new owner can get them connected to the app. Smh.

f5459f22-eb37-407b-a64f-c7ab0c626aa8.jpg
Nevermind! Ordered at full amount because you're a small business and I'd hate for you to take a hit on these lights. I mean really I should feel privelaged all I'm out is another 350 bucks. When the expectation should be buying new lights. Amirite?

This hobby is just...I dunno. Too much sometimes. Really.
 

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Nevermind! Ordered at full amount because you're a small business and I'd hate for you to take a hit on these lights. I mean really I should feel privelaged all I'm out is another 350 bucks. When the expectation should be buying new lights. Amirite?

This hobby is just...I dunno. Too much sometimes. Really.
Sounds like expectation for people in your situation is not to buy new lights but instead to buy the new wifi board, which is $175 a piece, and RB is discounting to $30 for people in your situation.

I know the whole situation is frustrating, but it seems like a fair offer to me.
 

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Sounds like expectation for people in your situation is not to buy new lights but instead to buy the new wifi board, which is $175 a piece, and RB is discounting to $30 for people in your situation.

I know the whole situation is frustrating, but it seems like a fair offer to me.
RB bricked their devices before they had a proper solution to get their users into the new app. They should know and expect that not everyone will transfer over in their documented timeframe. Having a migration support plan is common practice for service transitions. The solution is not charging customers for RB’s failure in a quality service transition plan.
 

GSPClown94

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RB bricked their devices before they had a proper solution to get their users into the new app. They should know and expect that not everyone will transfer over in their documented timeframe. Having a migration support plan is common practice for service transitions. The solution is not charging customers for RB’s failure in a quality service transition plan.
This 100%. Also it sounds like they never gave OP the discount since they had to pay full price. Small claims court exists for a reason, don't be afraid to use it.
 

wiriza01

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+1 In the same boat… well except found this thread so will be contacting tomorrow…
i understand the coms stance and truly hope it is limited to us few users.

I don’t understand how challenging it was or wasn’t from a software point of view, and if it was known or wasn’t known during testing, but the ramifications of bricking or blasting the lights (we all know how sensitive corals may be) is disconcerting. I get the “it is the consumer fault for not following instructions” but is it though?

There is no other app or telnet, ssh, some method to clear the stated value from a pc or other? The discounted module and or backend change cost for a product change (was not able to log on to app, honestly i thought company went belly up).

In that hypothetical world we would be in a much worst spot so will concede for now and hope there is an alternativ

RB bricked their devices before they had a proper solution to get their users into the new app. They should know and expect that not everyone will transfer over in their documented timeframe. Having a migration support plan is common practice for service transitions. The solution is not charging customers for RB’s failure in a quality service transition plan.
A curl post / api command perhaps? Mongoose 6.18. Something or a big banner on the photon product page. Speaking of vulnerabilities how does it work IOT.
 

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No here is the fix, it will cost this, nothing. Just we sent the email stoopid.

Liam, what do i do now? Put yourself in the customers shoes for a second. You have to understand this puts me in a bad spot. I need lights ok? You want more money fine, email me who I send the money to. Because what is my recourse? You bricked them and I have no lights until I fix or buy new.

Yes that was my old yahoo email I havnt had access to if you are using log in emails. I did start a thread here about the new app and didn't get a response however I didnt tag you. I should have.

I'm just so frustrated and your email didnt help.

3a5acfa9-8035-4b3d-8028-7611aad51ecc.jpg

5bab8e0a-9202-45ab-a359-e88760a3ea43.jpg
I would say that this kind of response to a customer service email is very poor. A company cannot expect customers to read mass distributed emails. Many of those kind of emails go straight into the junk mail folder and are never seen. What about the people who don’t register their emails to avoiding getting spammed? How would ReefBreeders responds to reasonable inquiries from them?

A better response would have been to outline what the customer can do to address their issue. If there steps have been outlined in prior emails—just cut and paste those emails.

The situation here seems terrible (ie, hardware upgrade required to be compatible with an app needed to run the equipment). That said, the heavy discounted pricing seems fair. Bad situation all around. I hope you can get your issues resolved. I also hope ReefBreeders handles customer communications and service inquiries better.
 

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I have never heard of a light being bricked over an app.
Actually is more common than you think. There are other "orphaned" led lights out there.
Can't think of one (besides this) that actually have a chance at being "fixed".

Once the app is gone or cloud is gone or controller is gone.. it's gone.
 

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Actually is more common than you think. There are other "orphaned" led lights out there.
Can't think of one (besides this) that actually have a chance at being "fixed".

Once the app is gone or cloud is gone or controller is gone.. it's gone.
I haven’t heard of this with the major lighting brands. I suppose if you include the random China brands from Amazon or AliExpress but I don’t believe those are the type of companies ReefBreeders compares itself against.
 

oreo54

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WOW... Lits of harsh here
Thing is they had a solution. Just not one for the fall through the cracks types.

What do you want?
Someone to knock on your door and spoon feed you?
Gee take " some" responsibility here.

Nothing was " permanently" bricked as would be the case if the company went under.

Everyone has their own " tipping point" of course.

From the descriptions here .. personally....rb wouldn't push me to mine.

Maybe I'm too gullible.

$30 to repair it... Sounds fair.
 

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I haven’t heard of this with the major lighting brands. I suppose if you include the random China brands from Amazon or AliExpress but I don’t believe those are the type of companies ReefBreeders compares itself against.
Does anyone know how I can get my Reno light to work without the app? I guess the app store has discontinued the Reno app, but how do I control the light without it?

There are others.. Some were major brands " back in the day"..
Btw never heard of Reno till now. But I've " helped" search for others

So my old AI controller (first generation with knob see pic) is needed some replacement. They don't seem to sell new controllers and everywhere I've looked the newer version and the wireless adapter is sold out and I've heard AI isn't making them anymore which is annoying.
I'm unearthing my old SB Reef sBox 28" LED for a QT tank but just realized it won't work without the app which is no longer available on the Google Play store.

Hardware or software, stuff happens.
 
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WOW... Lits of harsh here
Thing is they had a solution. Just not one for the fall through the cracks types.

What do you want?
Someone to knock on your door and spoon feed you?
Gee take " some" responsibility here.

Nothing was " permanently" bricked as would be the case if the company went under.

Everyone has their own " tipping point" of course.

From the descriptions here .. personally....rb wouldn't push me to mine.

Maybe I'm too gullible.

$30 to repair it... Sounds fair.

I think the Issue is nothing is really broken, RB decided to update this app with an email that can very easily be ignored as spam without a backup fix in case folks did not update their app in time. Now OP has to pay $30 per light and wait for a board to ship out so lights start functioning correctly. I would be frustrated as well.
 

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I can see both sides and try to be fair, I am a customer myself, but I see RB point of view.

Situation was the photon v2 came with an app rb didn’t own, but suited their needs and customer needs. The owner of that app charged rb money each month to keep the app online, and charged rb money for ever new user signing up for that app. Rb has been eating these charges for years.

They paid out of pocket to have their own app created, that they own, to not be controlled by another company.

They had both apps online simultaneously and for 2 years people could get the new app at any point for free. They finally got to a point where they didn’t want to pay the original company anymore for a redundant app, and gave end users an additional 3 months to upgrade for free to the new one. We are talking a total time of 27 months where people could have upgraded here where no hardware upgrade would have been needed.

The original app developers didn’t just shut down the app, they deleted it. Sounds like out of spite. It’s now gone and it was unexpected and out of RB control. No mock situation could have been done because the app had always been online and available. The backup plan would have been enable the old app and bring it back online, but the 3d party developers deleted it.

Rb and the new app team found an immediate solution, replace the wifi chip, and they discounted it down to $30 for people affected by this situation. Op paid full price because they bought from the website instead of through email / direct with RB owners. They also said they chose to do this so RB doesn’t have to lose money on the chip.

RB is also paying for their current app team, to custom develop a solution to make the new app install and wipe out the old apps certs. Probably easier when both versions are the same company but a challenge when it’s two different developers / apps.

I do think it’s a crappy situation overall but it sounds like they are trying to get users affected back online, and discounting the needed part by over 80% to try and make things right.

I feel for those affected, I can imagine the frustration, but at the same time I do think they are trying to help everyone out that’s in this situation, and I do think getting users on an app that RB owns is in the best interest for customers and the company.
 

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However, you will be unable to make changes or access your Reef Nexus account after November 1st.

This should have stated “you will be unable to make changes or access your LIGHTS after November 1st without upgrading the board” @Reef Breeders
 

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There are others.. Some were major brands " back in the day"..
Btw never heard of Reno till now. But I've " helped" search for others




Hardware or software, stuff happens.
The AI example you quote is a hardware controller replacement issue—very different than bricking a light via an app update.

The second example you cite is SB Reef Lights. That company went out of business—apparently in part due to terrible communication and transparency with customers. I assume ReefBreefers holds itself to a higher standard.


People get ripped off and cheated by companies and people all the time. That doesn’t excuse every kind of behavior by current companies in business. I therefore don’t see the point of the examples cited.
 

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The AI example you quote is a hardware controller replacement issue—very different than bricking a light via an app update.
It’s not really an app update, while at the same time it is. An update would imply a change from one revision to another.

It’s a switch to a replacement app, something different completely and the 3d party vendor that owned the old one, has shut it down and deleted it.

For some people, the lights are paired to an app that no longer exists. There is a new app, but it currently can’t remove the other companies security certificate.

The light also woud not be “bricked” it would also continue to run its existing schedule on its own, from its internal clock, but if you reset the light it defaults to being on at 100% it seems
 

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