Reef Flux & Macro Algae & is no algae achievable

[Susan Edwards]

Age old problem. I'm starting to see algae again. Dosed Reef Flux back in May, got most of it. Now I'm seeing more of it. I have some high end acros coming in a couple weeks and am debating dosing again. Question is, can we be totally without algae in our tanks? I notice the urchin I got doesn't seem to eat any of the spots near it so maybe bryopsis (think I had a mix before of hair and bry).

My no3 and po4 are now good. They were in the 20 range but last 3 weeks or so, been 15 or under. Not ultra low. I'm aiming for 10, as it probably helps the lps corals to have what I have.
No3--8-15--dosing nyos zero and bio last month which has brought it down.
PO4 .05--dosing to keep po

I keep adding more hermits, crabs and snails. I can add more. I do want to add another 1 or 2 urchins, as well.

Trouble is, if I dose, Reef Flux will kill my ulva lettuce and chaeto. I have a ton of ulva and my chaeto is about 4-5 inches around and almost a foot long. I don't want to lose my macro algae, esp if it is helping my no3

Should I just wait and see if the algae will die (haha) or do my numbers need to be a lot lower for algae in the display to starve. I really do not want to dose but I also do not want the algae to take over again. If I dose I'd rather do it now before my new frags arrive

should I try a couple of mollys?

Tank is a 9 month old upgrade. If I end up dosing, what do I do with my macro algae. Here is a tank shot

 

[Dan_P]

Age old problem. I'm starting to see algae again. Dosed Reef Flux back in May, got most of it. Now I'm seeing more of it. I have some high end acros coming in a couple weeks and am debating dosing again. Question is, can we be totally without algae in our tanks? I notice the urchin I got doesn't seem to eat any of the spots near it so maybe bryopsis (think I had a mix before of hair and bry).

My no3 and po4 are now good. They were in the 20 range but last 3 weeks or so, been 15 or under. Not ultra low. I'm aiming for 10, as it probably helps the lps corals to have what I have.
No3--8-15--dosing nyos zero and bio last month which has brought it down.
PO4 .05--dosing to keep po

I keep adding more hermits, crabs and snails. I can add more. I do want to add another 1 or 2 urchins, as well.

Trouble is, if I dose, Reef Flux will kill my ulva lettuce and chaeto. I have a ton of ulva and my chaeto is about 4-5 inches around and almost a foot long. I don't want to lose my macro algae, esp if it is helping my no3

Should I just wait and see if the algae will die (haha) or do my numbers need to be a lot lower for algae in the display to starve. I really do not want to dose but I also do not want the algae to take over again. If I dose I'd rather do it now before my new frags arrive

should I try a couple of mollys?

Tank is a 9 month old upgrade. If I end up dosing, what do I do with my macro algae. Here is a tank shot

I don’t think you can starve algae.

 

[aggrofish]

That looks pristine compared to my GHA jungle. I'm terrified of using flucanozole again. Last time it knocked out all the GHA and bryopsis, but then dinos followed and killed 3/4 of my coral. But directly to your question mollys are too small to do anything. Mine just hangs out at the top of the tank all day waiting for food. My tuxedo urchin doesnt seem very hungry but the spots he gets look great. I recently picked up a pitho crab because someone said they eat GHA. If by eat you mean pull some and put it on their head as camouflage and burry themselves in the sand - then yes it's great.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I don’t think you can starve algae.

That looks pristine compared to my GHA jungle. I'm terrified of using flucanozole again. Last time it knocked out all the GHA and bryopsis, but then dinos followed and killed 3/4 of my coral. But directly to your question mollys are too small to do anything. Mine just hangs out at the top of the tank all day waiting for food. My tuxedo urchin doesnt seem very hungry but the spots he gets look great. I recently picked up a pitho crab because someone said they eat GHA. If by eat you mean pull some and put it on their head as camouflage and burry themselves in the sand - then yes it's great.

I'm trying to remove as much nutrients as I can without bottoming out. I have to add neophos--2x's a day plus some reef roids or spirulina just to keep .03-.05

I have a UV, a fuge, lots of cuc (though always can use more), a tang, coral beauty, blue tang, algae blenny for known algae eaters.

Do you think if I hold to less than 10-15 no3 it will eventually die out

 

[mdb_talon]

I personally dont think there is a practical way to starve algae without starving coral so not a big fan of it. I see no reason why keeping no3 at 10-15 is going to lead to die out. In fact the more algae you get the more you are going to have to feed/dose in order to keep up to 10-15.

I am generally not a fan of chemicals for algae treatment but did recently use fluc for bryopsis. It never really got bad in my tank for whatever reason but it was there in mostly small amounts and clumps. It worked great bit understand your concern with macros. Ideally you have a local friend who can keep your macros for you for a couple weeks. As far as standard hair algaes i am never bothered by having some in the tank and generally if it dont get out of hand it can be kept in control with a proper cuc in my experience .

 

[Susan Edwards]

I do have a 40 gal aio. Perhaps I can float the chaeto on the top under normal lighting? The ulva I'd have to have in a basket floating on top. That tank has 1 clown and 1 bit of gsp. Hasn't been tested or dosed very often so no idea if the algae would survive, although no3 is high in that tank so maybe the chaeto would help lower it lol's. It's my observation tank but not being used except for the clown as it is so neglected. The 2nd clown went floor surfacing (with a lid even)

 

[Dkmoo]

no3 levels is not a direct cause of algae - the actual biological mechanism is actually a lot more complicated and has to do with the delicate balance in the microfauna/health of reef/grazers/autrotroph and heterotroph bacteria. they are often correlated with higher excess nutrients because an unhealthy system often results in it. Think of it this way - in ocean no3/po4 levels are barely detectable, and yet we have algae growing, and most of the time when algae "grow out of control" are in bad water conditions that's causing reef dieoff and deminishing biodiversity that upset that balance.

this is why some tanks have 1ppm no3 and still ahve algae issues, and other tanks have 20ppm no3 and no algae issues.

 

[Susan Edwards]

no3 levels is not a direct cause of algae - the actual biological mechanism is actually a lot more complicated and has to do with the delicate balance in the microfauna/health of reef/grazers/autrotroph and heterotroph bacteria. they are often correlated with higher excess nutrients because an unhealthy system often results in it. Think of it this way - in ocean no3/po4 levels are barely detectable, and yet we have algae growing, and most of the time when algae "grow out of control" are in bad water conditions that's causing reef dieoff and deminishing biodiversity that upset that balance.

this is why some tanks have 1ppm no3 and still ahve algae issues, and other tanks have 20ppm no3 and no algae issues.

so maybe adding more of mb clean or mb7? I'm also dosing nyos zero and bio and nopox

 

[Dkmoo]

so maybe adding more of mb clean or mb7? I'm also dosing nyos zero and bio and nopox

i think that perfect balance of biodiversity filled with nutrient generators (fish/poop), nutrient absorbers (algae, bacteria) and grazers (cuc, amphipods etc) is the holy grail that we all try to attain but is next to impossible. grazers will work - the more diverse the better - add those urchins, get a grazer fish, it'll all help. dose live phyto, increase your pod population, grow some sponges, feather dusters, other filter feeders. etc.. mb7 helps to add the biodiversity but is still just one aspect of a very complicated web.

i think the best we can do is to learn to live with a small amount and manage to control it.

algae also grow when there's available real estate - when your rocks mature and a covered with corals, sponges, and other live organism, algae will naturally decrease as well, which, with the help of your cuc, will be much better at keeping it in check.

 

[Susan Edwards]

i think that perfect balance of biodiversity filled with nutrient generators (fish/poop), nutrient absorbers (algae, bacteria) and grazers (cuc, amphipods etc) is the holy grail that we all try to attain but is next to impossible. grazers will work - the more diverse the better - add those urchins, get a grazer fish, it'll all help. dose live phyto, increase your pod population, grow some sponges, feather dusters, other filter feeders. etc.. mb7 helps to add the biodiversity but is still just one aspect of a very complicated web.

i think the best we can do is to learn to live with a small amount and manage to control it.

algae also grow when there's available real estate - when your rocks mature and a covered with corals, sponges, and other live organism, algae will naturally decrease as well, which, with the help of your cuc, will be much better at keeping it in check.

Well, I'm on the way. I have grazers, tons of pods and cultivate my own, though i'd like to add some ampipods. Have tons of macro algae over taking my fuge. I also dose phyto that I cultivate with all the rest. There are a ton of sponges, esp. on a couple rocks. Notice them "dripping/hanging". No filter feeders yet. Guess I need to fill the real estate (working on that lol's). So it sounds like I'm doing what I'm supposed too. I'll let things ride for a while and keep an eye.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

You get an algae free tank by having ample algae eaters and nutrient export.

Fluconazole should be used just for problem algae that CUC won't touch such as bryopsis. Otherwise you are just going to reduce your biodiversity for no good reason and end up with dinos.

 

[Jedi1199]

In my own experience, I had a brief GHA/Bryopsis issue with my tank at about the 6-7 month mark. I dosed it once with FluxRx and that did the trick. I have never had it again.

Now, having said that, my tank was (past tense due to the new build happening now) very heavily stocked. 16 fish and over 100 corals as well as over 80 pounds of rock (55g tank).

I can't be sure, but I believe that the very heavy bioload simply outcompeted the nuisance algae. I do know that the 3 tangs were constantly nibbling on whatever they found tasty on the rocks and glass, but I do not believe that they ate enough to stop a full blown outbreak.

Good lighting, good flow, and a heavy bioload is my belief as to what controlled a resurgence of the GHA/Bryopsis that I had before.

Time will tell I suppose as I will be setting up my new 135 in the morning. 3x the tank and more than double the footprint, plus another 50 pounds of new dry rock may trigger a new round of these exact issues that you are seeing with your own upgrade...

 

[Susan Edwards]

In my own experience, I had a brief GHA/Bryopsis issue with my tank at about the 6-7 month mark. I dosed it once with FluxRx and that did the trick. I have never had it again.

Now, having said that, my tank was (past tense due to the new build happening now) very heavily stocked. 16 fish and over 100 corals as well as over 80 pounds of rock (55g tank).

I can't be sure, but I believe that the very heavy bioload simply outcompeted the nuisance algae. I do know that the 3 tangs were constantly nibbling on whatever they found tasty on the rocks and glass, but I do not believe that they ate enough to stop a full blown outbreak.

Good lighting, good flow, and a heavy bioload is my belief as to what controlled a resurgence of the GHA/Bryopsis that I had before.

Time will tell I suppose as I will be setting up my new 135 in the morning. 3x the tank and more than double the footprint, plus another 50 pounds of new dry rock may trigger a new round of these exact issues that you are seeing with your own upgrade...

I had that outbreak at around the 6 mo mark as well and have what I consider a heavy bioload: 24 fish. 25 if you count one that is either missing/dead or still hiding. I feed heavy to be sure the slower fish get some and the bottom feeders. Usually 3 times a day. I think my lights are good ones lol's.

I'd think that a heavy bioload would contribute to algae breakouts.

Great on setting up a new tank! Exciting

 

[Jedi1199]

I had that outbreak at around the 6 mo mark as well and have what I consider a heavy bioload: 24 fish. 25 if you count one that is either missing/dead or still hiding. I feed heavy to be sure the slower fish get some and the bottom feeders. Usually 3 times a day. I think my lights are good ones lol's.

I'd think that a heavy bioload would contribute to algae breakouts.

Great on setting up a new tank! Exciting

I have no science to back up my statement. This is simply my own observation of my tank.

Your new tank is 300g total volume. If you do the math compared to my 55g, you would need 86 fish and almost 600 corals to equal the same bio-load as my 55.

 

[Susan Edwards]

It is only 240. I figure about 220 total water. Maybe less. Even so, that means I could double my fish and no where near that in coral! Do you have a new build thread for your upgrade? I'll ck out your current one after work tomorrow!

 

[Jedi1199]

It is only 240. I figure about 220 total water. Maybe less. Even so, that means I could double my fish and no where near that in coral! Do you have a new build thread for your upgrade? I'll ck out your current one after work tomorrow!

So with that, I'm going to do my dream tank: a Waterbox Reef LX 320.7 Tank is approx 86x30x24. Display 231g, sump 69g, ATO 18g.

Unless my math is off, 231+69=300 take off 15% for rocks and substrate still leaves you with 255g more or less.

Either way, you would need a LOT more fish and corals to achieve the bio-load my 55 ran with.

Yes, I do have a new build thread going... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-135-build.909794/

 

[ZombieEngineer]

In my own experience, I had a brief GHA/Bryopsis issue with my tank at about the 6-7 month mark. I dosed it once with FluxRx and that did the trick. I have never had it again.

Now, having said that, my tank was (past tense due to the new build happening now) very heavily stocked. 16 fish and over 100 corals as well as over 80 pounds of rock (55g tank).

I can't be sure, but I believe that the very heavy bioload simply outcompeted the nuisance algae. I do know that the 3 tangs were constantly nibbling on whatever they found tasty on the rocks and glass, but I do not believe that they ate enough to stop a full blown outbreak.

Good lighting, good flow, and a heavy bioload is my belief as to what controlled a resurgence of the GHA/Bryopsis that I had before.

Time will tell I suppose as I will be setting up my new 135 in the morning. 3x the tank and more than double the footprint, plus another 50 pounds of new dry rock may trigger a new round of these exact issues that you are seeing with your own upgrade...

It's not your heavy bioload that helped, it was the 3 tangs.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Unless my math is off, 231+69=300 take off 15% for rocks and substrate still leaves you with 255g more or less.

Either way, you would need a LOT more fish and corals to achieve the bio-load my 55 ran with.

Yes, I do have a new build thread going... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-135-build.909794/

ah, that was my original plan for the tank. I had to go with the RS 3xl900 which is 79x25x25. My room is 10x10 and that 86" in length was just too big. 79" leaves me like 20" on either end. Still, I have lots of room to add

 

[Susan Edwards]

It's not your heavy bioload that helped, it was the 3 tangs.

I have 2 and they don't do a lot. I do need/want more tangs but need to get the 6 staghorn damsels out!

 

[Susan Edwards]

anyone think room lighting at 5 feet (led bulb from a ceiling fan) contributes? My par meter measured like 1600 near tank. Thinking of moving both "on" lights to my desk side and none directed toward tank in case. Or am I reaching here