I’m very happy with the shine so far. Transitioning from KZ. I’m 3 months in I believe.
Reef moonshiners program
- Thread starter cedwards04
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Bo.
Impatient as always
danieyella
unfriendly local swamp witch
That's exactly it. For awhile people were sending other tanks under their ro samples to "cheat the system" so now ati doesn't actually run those tests on the ro samples
They probably just use the same webform, I don't know.
Devaji
5000 Club Member
so I head about this today....went down the rabbit hole.
not sure its for me though.
RS650P 4 months old will be mostly LPS soft coral dom. with a few SPS.
I am more of a KISS kinda reefer. was about to set up AWC of about 1.5 gal per day with IO mix and soon set up kalk dosing. and be more hands off.
I travel a far amount one a year for a month so not sure all this daily dosing is for me.
I mean sure one could spend 1K on dosing pumps but then its become pretty expensive.
what am I missing? is this for ppl who want complete control and love to tinker and chase #?
I did join the FB group and will read the ebook soon. but how many things are dosed per day/week/month?
not sure its for me though.
RS650P 4 months old will be mostly LPS soft coral dom. with a few SPS.
I am more of a KISS kinda reefer. was about to set up AWC of about 1.5 gal per day with IO mix and soon set up kalk dosing. and be more hands off.
I travel a far amount one a year for a month so not sure all this daily dosing is for me.
I mean sure one could spend 1K on dosing pumps but then its become pretty expensive.
what am I missing? is this for ppl who want complete control and love to tinker and chase #?
I did join the FB group and will read the ebook soon. but how many things are dosed per day/week/month?
I would think twice before starting this program. Here's why. Back in early June I decided to go the Moonshiner route instead of doing water changes. Got my ATI test kit, set up my profile page and sent in my samples on June 7th. I was under the assumption that ATI UK would contact me via e-mail (as stated on their web site) when they received my samples. 2 weeks had gone buy and not a peep from anyone. After reading on the Moonshiner's facebook page that some samples had been lost but then found I figured i would give them another week to see if they would contact me. As of Monday of this week still nothing. So I reached out to customer service UK. They promptly e-mailed me back and said they never recieved my samples and told me to contact ATI US. So after an e-mail to ATI US customer service they told me the samples were sent out to UK on June 10th and arrived June 12 in Germany. So long story short.....nobody knows. So at this point I am out the $50 for the test kit and have know way of knowing what elements the tank may need.
So heres the problem I see with this program. You have at least 3 points of possible failure.
1. United Staes Postal Service is un reliable!
2. Can not trust ATI US to keep track of your samples.
3. Can not trust ATI UK to keep track of your samples.
Seems stupid to me to have to send 2 little vials of water all the way around to the other side of the planet just to find out what you need to purchase from Texas!
Sorry Shiner's but I will head in a different direction.
So heres the problem I see with this program. You have at least 3 points of possible failure.
1. United Staes Postal Service is un reliable!
2. Can not trust ATI US to keep track of your samples.
3. Can not trust ATI UK to keep track of your samples.
Seems stupid to me to have to send 2 little vials of water all the way around to the other side of the planet just to find out what you need to purchase from Texas!
Sorry Shiner's but I will head in a different direction.
rtparty
2500 Club Member
I am on test #6 and not a single issue so far. Got multiple buddies who have sent multiple tests and not a problem. You just happened to get the one off poor experience that has NOTHING to do with the Moonshiners program. Send in to Triton or ICP Analysis instead. You won't get the exact same testing as ATI but you will be close enough.
I have also heard rumor that ATI has setup an ICP machine here in the States. If true, that will make this even better.
Personally, I base my experience off the program itself and not a third party. ATI doesn't have anything to do with Andre's system. It is just the best ICP test out there right now. Contact ATI again and ask for a free test kit to replace the one lost. Use honey, not vinegar and I bet you catch a lot more flies
Smite
2500 Club Member
I dose in small amounts daily:
Vanadium
Manganese
Iodine
Rubidium
Chromium
Cobalt
Iron
Since stepping down to a 75 gallon I haven't been doing the full method. I've been battling algae and the weekly water changes seem counter productive to the testing for me right now. It's under control now, so I'll be sending off an ICP this week to start back up. It will be interesting to see whats depleted with calcium reactor and weekly 20% water changes. I suspect there will be many trace elements completely depleted even with both those.
The rest are adjusted off ICP test results. Usually it works out to about 1 ICP a month until you can see the trend of your tank. Then some do bi monthly and do educated guesses for the off month based off previous results.
It's complicated at first, reading the handbook then understanding the calculator ect but after awhile you know the numbers and don't need to reference the handbook as much and it gets quicker. Testing can get farther apart if you can recognize your tanks uptake trends.
Andre is constantly helping people on the group, not only with shiner directed questions but anything reef related. Amazing customer service.
ATI is the test he suggests, you can't really bash the program based off an outside party mess up in my opinion. That is BS and sorry to hear ATI is giving you the run around. That being said, I've never lost a test. I have had them take close to 3 weeks, but it's usually 10-14 days for me.
It was 100% ATI? There are more that 2 vials.
minus9
5000 Club Member
The program itself is rock solid, but wish ATI had a testing facility here in the states, maybe if enough of us ask for it, it may happen? It's also a program that works around your schedule, so you can take off a month and your tank isn't going to go downhill, just pick up dailies and send off a test when you return. Daily water changes that are less than 10% or more a day are completely worthless in my book, unless you're running a nano, in which case weekly changes are better. I never understood how 1 or 2 gallons a day did anything positive for a reef tank? It seems like a lot of effort and money (pumps, containers, etc...) to exchange such a small amount of water, which doesn't actually replenish any trace or minor elements.
Sorry, not trying to be the "get off of my lawn" guy, but there are better ways of running a reef. If you haven't read the handbook, then give it a read through (a couple times). Andre and others on his FB group will answer any questions or concerns. I'm with @Smite here, don't blame a testing company's handling of samples for something that has nothing to do with this program.
Happy reefing!
Sorry, not trying to be the "get off of my lawn" guy, but there are better ways of running a reef. If you haven't read the handbook, then give it a read through (a couple times). Andre and others on his FB group will answer any questions or concerns. I'm with @Smite here, don't blame a testing company's handling of samples for something that has nothing to do with this program.
Happy reefing!
re-thinking it, I would not trust having a one man band keeping me supplied with all the elements for my tank either.
I guess the methodoly is good just to many possible points of failure. Granted I am just going by my debacle with ATI.
dragon99
2500 Club Member
There's no reason you have to buy elements from Andre. In fact the last time I looked his spreadsheets have direct dosing for many ATI and Brightwell supplements. Think of moonshiners as a modified Triton method without the vendor lock in
minus9
5000 Club Member
This! With more independent control. It’s really simple to follow and implement, whereas others lock you in with combo elements and no way of splitting them up. This was my big gripe with Triton (among other things). Plus, you dose so little of the dailies, that they last forever and you typically trend towards dosing less of the monthly corrections.
rtparty
2500 Club Member
With a little searching around and basic safety, you can create the elements yourself. You would just need to figure out concentrations and all that.
I personally use the Brightwell products that Andre recommends (potassium and strontium) and the rest are ATI supplements. I had to come up with my own dosing amounts based on ATI instructions though. I'm currently working on an ATI dosing calculator for personal use. It will just make things easier.
Hello,
Looking to go with this program on my new 300, I run ESV 2 part on my current 200 along with monthly Triton test and adjustments. I have been using ESV for years with good results, will esv cause any issues with this program?
I don’t have facebook to even ask
Thanks
Looking to go with this program on my new 300, I run ESV 2 part on my current 200 along with monthly Triton test and adjustments. I have been using ESV for years with good results, will esv cause any issues with this program?
I don’t have facebook to even ask
Thanks
minus9
5000 Club Member
minus9
5000 Club Member
You can use any method you want for adding/controlling the big 3. That's the great thing about the program. Watch the video, Andre talks about a lot of things. I was working, but caught a few things moments. ATI is better and a more complete ICP testing compared to Triton. Plus, it's $5 cheaper and you get more from it. Triton works if you need quick results from a possible issue, but their machine has been down here in LA for a while and I'm not sure if it's back online yet?
rtparty
2500 Club Member
I am not an expert...even though I often pretend to be
I have been running RM since February and absolutely love it. I believe Andre has talked about ESV in the past in the FB group. Don't remember what he said though. It does contain a bunch (or all) of the major and minor trace elements. This CAN make things a little tougher IMO but not end of the world. Start with ESV, send off monthly ATI ICP tests, and watch your trends.
I use BRS pharma 2 part, Tropic Marin Part C, multiple ATI elements and multiple RM elements. I am replacing all the ATI elements for RM as I run out. Makes dosing easier having Andre's calculator. RM is also cheaper.
Have you read the handbook? I believe Andre is on here still. Name is psxerholic or something along those lines
Thanks! I've read the handbook a couple of times now, currently listening to the video from last night. I'm willing to change away from ESV but I'll be wasting the gallons of ESV I have on hand unless I can sell them locally.
Do you recommend the program? The new tank will be all SPS and 2 of my OG LPS corals.
danieyella
unfriendly local swamp witch
I was using AFR when I started, he told me the same thing he's told ESV users: send off your test, do your corrections, continue with what you're doing now. If you have certain things continuing to climb that are included in your current program then consider switching away from it. I ultimately left AFR for that reason. There are a number of users who left ESV for that, and a number who have had no significantly high levels from it and continue to use it.
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