Reef Moonshiners V All for Reef

[FishTacos2]

I use AFR on my mostly SPS tank. when I run ICP-MS most of my traces are still low or undetectable. So I stared also using RMS to try and get everything where RMS wants it.

Why. I don’t care about the money and I am chasing colors.

Does it work? Too early to tell. My colors are not where I want them. But I am also not in the target trace element range yet on many things.

 

[exnisstech]

I’m just getting started with corals that would benefit more from dosing. So I’ve researched RM, AFR, Activ8, but haven’t heard of balling. Back to the drawing board

If your just getting started with coral I would highly recommend keeping it as simple as possible and experiment later when you get more of an idea what your tank actually needs. Simple can be so much less frustrating early on.
This tank ran on only kalk for over 6 years. I had a lot of evaporation so I was able to dose enough saturated kalk to keep up.

EDIT: I didn't even know about trace elements. I just did a WC once in a while with IO purple.

 

[Troylee]

You are a NEWB .. pretty sure I remember you from like 20 years ago on that other site doing DIY builds.

It’s a inside joke with a few other reefers.. there was a person that commented in a all for reef thread saying it’s junk and only newbs should use it cause they don’t know what they’re doing! It kinda stuck! . Yeah I miss them good ole days of diy but everything has been marketed now and people capitalized on it all and mastered it.. I don’t miss that place thou haha! Back then it was like oh I have this problem what can I do to make it better? That’s how all that innovation started and it was fun we built the first cone skimmers the first led lights etc etc.. now corporate took it all into their hands and the fun out of it.

 

[Reign1]

It’s a inside joke with a few other reefers.. there was a person that commented in a all for reef thread saying it’s junk and only newbs should use it cause they don’t know what they’re doing! It kinda stuck! . Yeah I miss them good ole days of diy but everything has been marketed now and people capitalized on it all and mastered it.. I don’t miss that place thou haha! Back then it was like oh I have this problem what can I do to make it better? That’s how all that innovation started and it was fun we built the first cone skimmers the first led lights etc etc.. now corporate took it all into their hands and the fun out of it.

Yup I was always in your acrylic threads , built a few Ca reactors and I still have a drawer full of LED optics, thermal adhesive and heat sink. Yeah that inside joke . The LFS sales kid regularly tells folks it is junk also . You figure that simple and easy to use product they would be pushing it instead of 4 part ..

 

[FishLvR]

I chose balling because for my tank it is the most cost effective. I dose very little of A, B, and C and sometimes rarely Magnesium from BRS once a month. Add in trace elements like All for Reef or K and A and it's as simple as can be.

I’m just getting started with corals that would benefit more from dosing. So I’ve researched RM, AFR, Activ8, but haven’t heard of balling. Back to the drawing board

https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/original-balling-components?lang=en

 

[dvgyfresh]

KISS method, no water changes - top off with kalk and dose trace elements and feed more than you think

 

[JohnNYC8]

I understand that RM is much more in depth. Everything is added separately based on an icp test. It looks alluring after I see the results from people using it. It is on the higher end of cost.

All for reef is much more friendly on the budget. Handles a lot of parameters and some trace elements.

I don’t have much coral now. Other than my duncans, everything else is looking good in the tank. Just some basics, leathers, hammers. My main parameters are on point except my phos is a little elevated at .59.

I want to get ready for some sps and some higher end torches.

I’ve seen fantastic tanks using AFR as well as RM.

My tank is a 144g with a 30g sump. I have 2 gyre style and one circular power head and a 1600gph return. I have a fuge with some caulerpa. Simplicity 320dc skimmer. Reef breeders photonv2 48” (will be upgrading in the winter).

I currently use AB+ and I make my own fish food which is a mixture of salmon, shrimp, and clam…. Or some shell animal, and nori. I also feed pellets mid morning.

So my question is, is RM really worth the money or will AFR handle things well? What have been your pros and cons?

I think it comes down to system volume. AFR is proven to work but it can be price prohibitive on larger systems. If you have a huge system RM can save a lot of time and money on water changes. Both methods are proven to work so I’d go with the one you’re comfortable with at a cost you’re comfortable with.

 

[jrawk1120]

I understand that RM is much more in depth. Everything is added separately based on an icp test. It looks alluring after I see the results from people using it. It is on the higher end of cost.

All for reef is much more friendly on the budget. Handles a lot of parameters and some trace elements.

I don’t have much coral now. Other than my duncans, everything else is looking good in the tank. Just some basics, leathers, hammers. My main parameters are on point except my phos is a little elevated at .59.

I want to get ready for some sps and some higher end torches.

I’ve seen fantastic tanks using AFR as well as RM.

My tank is a 144g with a 30g sump. I have 2 gyre style and one circular power head and a 1600gph return. I have a fuge with some caulerpa. Simplicity 320dc skimmer. Reef breeders photonv2 48” (will be upgrading in the winter).

I currently use AB+ and I make my own fish food which is a mixture of salmon, shrimp, and clam…. Or some shell animal, and nori. I also feed pellets mid morning.

So my question is, is RM really worth the money or will AFR handle things well? What have been your pros and cons?

I think it comes down to system volume. AFR is proven to work but it can be price prohibitive on larger systems. If you have a huge system RM can save a lot of time and money on water changes. Both methods are proven to work so I’d go with the one you’re comfortable with at a cost you’re comfortable with.

I’m probably around 140g volumes in my system.

I think starting with AFR and adopting a more stringent process at a later time if needed is the way to go.

I’m not trying to ignore water changes. I think my parameters are pretty stable because I just keep it on a schedule. I just want coral to thrive

 

[Gumbies R Us]

AFR, nice and simple to use

 

[RoanokeReef]

I think it comes down to system volume. AFR is proven to work but it can be price prohibitive on larger systems. If you have a huge system RM can save a lot of time and money on water changes. Both methods are proven to work so I’d go with the one you’re comfortable with at a cost you’re comfortable with.

When I was looking at RM it seemed like the cost I was spending on Salt / AFR was just being shifted to Bottles and ICP testing.

 

[KStatefan]

I would not consider AFR and RMS something to compare. AFR is a system to replace alk, calcium, mag, potassium and trace elements while RMS is a system to run elevated trace elements. You can not run the RMS method without also running some type of alk calcium replacement also AFR, Kalk, 2-Part, Balling.

 

[rishma]

I would not consider AFR and RMS something to compare. AFR is a system to replace alk, calcium, mag, potassium and trace elements while RMS is a system to run elevated trace elements. You can not run the RMS method without also running some type of alk calcium replacement also AFR, Kalk, 2-Part, Balling.

I actually like this point. One could certainly use AFR and decide at some point to supplement certain trace elements based on the RMM.

 

[JohnNYC8]

When I was looking at RM it seemed like the cost I was spending on Salt / AFR was just being shifted to Bottles and ICP testing.

I think that cost equation starts to shift when you get into systems with extremely large volumes. Like 500-800+ gallons. It also depends on the size and frequency of water changes you’re saving on.

 

[FishTacos2]

I agree with the newb comment. If you’re just starting out I would focus on the following in a stepwise approach.

In order of priority (my opinion). You should probably be able to keep corals alive and well after step 1.

Of course you have to to the very basic stuff first. proper cycle, stable temp, stable SG with a way to top off after evaporation


Step 1- Alk and Ca. Get a stable tank with regard to Alk and Ca. You can do this with balling, AFR, Kalk, calcium reactor, combo of any of these. Just pick a method. Depending on what you’re keeping for a simpler tank some people get by w only water changes. I did this for years on my first ever tank.

2) Nutrients. If your dialed on this Alk/ca, I would focus on nutrients (phos/nitrate). I had previously underestimated how important these things were. My corals were much happier after I raised levels up from zero.

Ratios are highly debated so I won’t comment on that. I think most people would agree you don’t want them zero (ULNS less popular today). Phos 0.02-0.1. Nitrates probably 2-20 or higher. Most people are not using GFO anymore.

3) Trace elements. As stated by others in the post there are a variety of ways to do this. Every company sells some kind of product. AFR is easy. Tropic Marin also makes A and K which you can add into your balling method. Red Sea has trace element bottles ABCD, triton/RMS, there are also a lot of DIY trace solutions out there too.

4) play with pH if you desire. I feel like this is the least important.

 

[Troylee]

Mmmmm moonshine!

 

[rishma]

Mmmmm moonshine!

What a newb

 

[Troylee]

What a newb

I gotta say white lightning was the worst hang over experience I’ve ever had in my life! Never again! hmmmm maybe it is good for carbon dosing the tank

 

[bobnicaragua]

I have a 135 gal SPS tank and was on moonshiners for 3 or 4 years. I had good results with it. I’m back to water changes and dosing Tropic Marine trace elements. I’m having good results with that also.

I learned a lot about trace elements from moonshiners. It cost more, but I didn’t have to do water changes for years! In my case, I find it beneficial to vacuum the gravel. So, I’m back to water changes.

Trace elements matter, but not as much as nutrients, flow, lighting, and PH. Give moonshiners a shot, it’s a good method. Just don’t think it’s acro success sauce.

 

[bobnicaragua]

I gotta say white lightning was the worst hang over experience I’ve ever had in my life! Never again! hmmmm maybe it is good for carbon dosing the tank

Troy, have you ever given 1800 tequila a shot at the title!?

 

[Troylee]

Troy, have you ever given 1800 tequila a shot at the title!?

Nah but I did have some Don Julio 1942 the other night.. only had 2 shots thou! I’m not a spring chicken no more and 4 days of a hang over ain’t worth it! Haha