Reef Pro AB vs Reef Fusion 1 & 2

jasonrusso

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I've been using Reef Fusion 1 and 2 for years. I recently saw an ad for Reef Pro Complete A &B. It looks to be similar to Reef Fusion, but has more trace elements in it. I dose Iodine, but this has iodine in the "B" so I like that. It costs a bit less, but it it looks like it is 1/2 as concentrated so it would end up being more expensive but not prohibitive.

Anyone used this in the past?

 

Phil D.

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I currently use the Red Sea AB+, it doesn't drive my skimmer nuts and gives fantastic polyp extension.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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First, I'd advise that Reef Fusion is not properly designed as a 1:1 alk and calcium supplement, so do not believe their claim that it is.

Second, A two part, even one with every significant trace element, is not necessarily useful at all as a trace element supplement. It might even cause trace elements to be reduced. Few two parts make any claims about how much of what is present, but a few do, such as ESV-B-ionic and Part C of Tropic Marin Balling. Those DO NOT act as trace element supplements despite containing them

I explain how that works here:


One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.
 
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jasonrusso

jasonrusso

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First, I'd advise that Reef Fusion is not properly designed as a 1:1 alk and calcium supplement, so do not believe their claim that it is.
I agree with this and I don't dose 1:1, I dose as needed to keep levels stable.

First, I'd advise that Reef Fusion is not properly designed as a 1:1 alk and calcium supplement, so do not believe their claim that it is.

Second, A two part, even one with every significant trace element, is not necessarily useful at all as a trace element supplement. It might even cause trace elements to be reduced. Few two parts make any claims about how much of what is present, but a few do, such as ESV-B-ionic and Part C of Tropic Marin Balling. Those DO NOT act as trace element supplements despite containing them

I explain how that works here:


One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.

Wow, that's a lot to digest. So do you feel that there is NO benefit to a 2 part that claims to have trace elements? That's what I gather. If that's the case, how would you recommend to replenish trace elements?

I'm not really sure how the salinity levels would change by dosing. Does this effect become negated through water changes?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I agree with this and I don't dose 1:1, I dose as needed to keep levels stable.



Wow, that's a lot to digest. So do you feel that there is NO benefit to a 2 part that claims to have trace elements? That's what I gather. If that's the case, how would you recommend to replenish trace elements?

I'm not really sure how the salinity levels would change by dosing. Does this effect become negated through water changes?

There is certainly benefit to a complete two part such as ESV-B-ionic or Balling vs just calcium chloride and sodium carbonate. They keep lots of ions (e.g., potassium) from being depleted by the salinity readjustments necessary.

That effect is also partly why my DIY has a third part of magnesium sulfate/chloride.

But many trace elements are used by organisms that use no calcium or alkalinity. That is why there are trace element only supplements. Iron, manganese, etc, are strongly used by all photosynthetic organisms, such as macroalgae, microalgae, soft corals, etc.
 

nano reef

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A vendor I buy from suggested I use a 2 part like reef fusion. He says it keeps alk and calcum in balance and essential elements as well. Ijsy read the many methods of supplementing and it confused the hell out of me. I am a 62 yo woman and run a very basic system! I am not a guy into gadgets and all. LOL. Not tech savy! I dose by hand and top off by hand. I am fixing to add a top off because I cant keep the skimmer running! In my 36. some reason my nuv o 20 aio it works fine!

I use 10 ml in my 36 and none in my 20 yet. I am adding a lot of new corals though because I over bought lol. since my oredr has neen kept for months and they kept having auctions LONg story! Mostly all highend pieces though and mostly zoas and shrooms. some hign end acans and blastos, gonis. and those bigger ones are going in 36.

I use BRS soda ash and calcium chloride. I want to switch for lots of reasons. mainly ph increase. Plus my corals grow slowly besides my hammers, torches duncans! Even my low light sps grows slow!

I live in humid fl so top off less then 1 gallon for sure. Dont know exactly though as I use a 2 1/2 gallon jug and fill to line!

What would you recommend for a newbie to this type of dosing? I was reading posts on how quick people corals have grown and overall healthier looking using kalk. I also read if you dont evaporate much it isnt wise and Kalk could easily kill your tanks as well.

I have a top off I plan to hook up but I read that a dosing pump is safer and to be sure to buy a ph moniter.

I think I would rather satrt with the newer type of 2 part. I guess I am still going to old fashion way. Plus I would like to add some essential; elements. Alaso is iodine and amino acids a good idea to dose? I change water 2 xs a week with fritz blue line but I add a tiny alk because it only mixes at 7.5 or so. I like to keep alk 9.5.

I am sorry this is so long. I am about to place an order for a par meter so want to add maybe reef fusion or whatevr you recommend. Prefer something cost effective! LOL. But who dosnt!

Oh I have a very small cabinet and sump under my 36 bowfront( but a closet right next to it I can store containers ect) and a kitchen cabinet below my nuvo 20 aio.

I actually disconnect my skimmer because I have a huge bridge rock in sump now to make room for a big hob frag rack that I need to store all my new corals coming in until my frag tank is ready.

Is it a bad idea to have a fragtank with zoas and shrooms? Thats my plan! There all high end so scares me to put expensive ones in a newly cycled frag tank but hoping since there is no sand I wont have an ugly stage!

Sorry this is so long and so many questions!
Thanks
Karen
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I am a 62 yo woman and run a very basic system!
Well, you are still younger than me. lol

Can you explain the pH concern? Do you want more pH boost or less?

FWIW, you are already using a two part. There are many to pick from, but Reef Fusion is not going to give any pH boost over what you use now.
 

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