Responsible Stewards- Don’t Let The Future Fish Size Prevent You From Getting The Fish You Want

[blaxsun]

 

[Billldg]

I think that cat might eat any fish...LOL!!! ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

 

[PeterC99]

Completely disagree. There are just way too problems with this line of thinking. While there are situations where this works out, I don’t think that it should be promoted or really even condoned. I know people always buy these fish with the intention of giving them to someone with a larger tank or upgrading down the line, but unless those plans are set in stone (as in you’ve already bought the tank or have the money and space to do so, or you have already found someone else who has agreed to take it), it shouldn’t be done.

I fully understand all the arguments you’re trying to make, and while you personally might have followed through with rehoming fish that have outgrown your tank, the fact of the matter is, most people don’t. The fish either never live long enough to outgrow the tank, the person just keeps the fish because they’re either attached to it, are ignorant about appropriate tank sizes, or just don’t care, or they do try to find another home for it but are unsuccessful (fish rescue organizations exist exactly because of this). I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve seen an 8+” tang in 55gallon tank, or a 5” maroon clown in a 20 gallon, or a 12” long puffer in 75 gallon, and those are some less depressing examples I could give you (I’ve see 6” tangs in biocubes and 4” tomato clowns in 5 gallon tanks). My point is that the mere intention of upgrading or rehoming is not enough to justify buying a fish that you know will quickly outgrow your tank, there needs to be a solid, real plan in place, not something you’ll figure out down the road.

Its down right laughable to say the practice is in line with sustainability. This isn’t sustainability, it’s the opposite of sustainability. I’m really trying to understand the logic of saying that buying one fish and then replacing it with another, continually, is somehow more sustainable than just buying one fish that you keep its entire life and don’t have to get rid of because it out grows your tank. Fish and aquatic animals are not disposable or something you should lease and trade in for a new version every couple years.

Again, I understand that in some situations or circumstances it works out, and that’s okay, but the practice shouldn’t be promoted (especially to people new to the hobby), it shouldn’t be a common practice. I can understand if you’ve been in the hobby a long time, you’ve got multiple tanks and/or people you personally know with multiple tanks, that it’s something that can work out, but that is very different than recommending the average hobbyist do it and just disregard tank size recommendations because ‘hey, we’ll just figure it out later’. Recommending or promoting that people do this is just plain irresponsible

Never said sustainability was about going out and buying another fish. Only said that if the fish outgrows the aquarium, I’m going to do everything I can to keep that fish alive and get it to a good home.

Also - absolutely should be promoting this - Responsible Stewards (Reefers). Says it right in the title!!! Also says “Enjoy your fish responsibly. Research your fish before buying and make good choices!.” You don’t believe these things should be promoted?

 

[blaxsun]

The problem with the "Tang Police" is that they have all the tact of a sledgehammer, and their "no compromise" approach is not only incredibly smug, but elitist and arrogant. Fish (including tangs) die all the time, and more often than not it has absolutely nothing to do with tank size.

Get the fish you want and can afford to take care of, and try to be reasonably responsible. I'd rather see someone get a smaller system for the sole fish they really want and use the extra money they save on the larger system that was "required" to instead improve the smaller system, be it in the form of better equipment, monitoring or simply more time to maintain better.

 

[PeterC99]

The problem with the "Tang Police" is that they have all the tact of a sledgehammer, and their "no compromise" approach is not only incredibly smug, but elitist and arrogant. Fish (including tangs) die all the time, and more often than not it has absolutely nothing to do with tank size.

Any stats on this? That changes the calculus of this discussion completely!

 

[blaxsun]

Any stats on this? That changes the calculus of this discussion completely!

Well, I will share the tale of two tangs. The first was a very small sailfin tang (maybe 1.5-2") that was initially placed in a 25-gallon lagoon for about 6 months while a much larger and more elaborate system was planned and put together. In this tank were a half dozen other small fish, and he got along swimmingly. As per the original plan, the larger system arrived one day and our hero tang was acclimated to his new home and found it thoroughly agreeable.

5 months pass and his owner decided to add another small naso tang to the new system, and both the tangs got along great for about a week - until the new naso tang nosedived into an elegance coral and died. The end.

Tang survival in small tank: 1/1 = 100% (6 months)
Tang survival in large tank: 1/2 = 50% (6 months for 1st, 1 week for 2nd)

So nothing is guaranteed.

 

[PeterC99]

Well, I will share the tale of two tangs. The first was a very small sailfin tang (maybe 1.5-2") that was initially placed in a 25-gallon lagoon for about 6 months while a much larger and more elaborate system was planned and put together. In this tank were a half dozen other small fish, and he got along swimmingly. As per the original plan, the larger system arrived one day and our hero tang was acclimated to his new home and found it thoroughly agreeable.

5 months pass and his owner decided to add another small naso tang to the new system, and both the tangs got along great for about a week - until the new naso tang nosedived into an elegance coral and died. The end.

Tang survival in small tank: 1/1 = 100% (6 months)
Tang survival in large tank: 1/2 = 50% (6 months for 1st, 1 week for 2nd)

So nothing is guaranteed.

Great story!

 

[srcleary]

I have purchased a number of fish from other tanks. So from the position of the "buyer" in the "re-homing" debate, I am all for it! For me, purchasing a fish that has grown up in a healthy aquarium makes complete sense. Much more sense than purchasing a fish straight from the LFS. And it often cost less money!

1. I support the practice 100%.

2. But I agree many people don't adhere to the plan to re-home at the right time. I have visited many aquariums where the fish had outgrown their tank and the owner wasn't making any plans to deal with it.

3. Like many other debates, the problem is with the keepers, not with the concept.

An example is this Scribbled that out grew his tank. And he might look great in my 800g.

 

[PeterC99]

I have purchased a number of fish from other tanks. So from the position of the "buyer" in the "re-homing" debate, I am all for it! For me, purchasing a fish that has grown up in a healthy aquarium makes complete sense. Much more sense than purchasing a fish straight from the LFS. And it often cost less money!

1. I support the practice 100%.

2. But I agree many people don't adhere to the plan to re-home at the right time. I have visited many aquariums where the fish had outgrown their tank and the owner wasn't making any plans to deal with it.

3. Like many other debates, the problem is with the keepers, not with the concept.

An example is this Scribbled that out grew his tank. And he might look great in my 800g.

Wow - spectacular fish. Great inspiration!!!

 

[PeterC99]

I have purchased a number of fish from other tanks. So from the position of the "buyer" in the "re-homing" debate, I am all for it! For me, purchasing a fish that has grown up in a healthy aquarium makes complete sense. Much more sense than purchasing a fish straight from the LFS. And it often cost less money!

1. I support the practice 100%.

2. But I agree many people don't adhere to the plan to re-home at the right time. I have visited many aquariums where the fish had outgrown their tank and the owner wasn't making any plans to deal with it.

3. Like many other debates, the problem is with the keepers, not with the concept.

An example is this Scribbled that out grew his tank. And he might look great in my 800g.

Did you purchase this as a juvenile Scribbled?

 

[srcleary]

Did you purchase this as a juvenile Scribbled?

It’s not my fish. I’m looking to purchase it.

 

[James_O]

That’s great logic! Thanks for the write up.

It’s not my fish. I’m looking to purchase it.

That is a gorgeous fish, you should definitely get it if you’re able to!

 

[PeterC99]

Very, VERY, envious!

If you do purchase, would you please post some pictures? At least the rest of us Reefers can live vicariously through you!

 

[PeterC99]

That's the biggest cause for heated debate when these type of fish come into play. Those of us, myself included, that have no issue rehoming a fish for its health, its not an issue, BUT, most reefers become to attached to a fish and are not able to rehome it. They look at it and say, look, it stopped growing and fits perfectly in my tank. In actuality it has not stopped growing. The overall size of the fish has greatly slowed down, but, the internal organs have not, thus the reason to rehome a fish in a responsible time frame. The Tang Police, I feel mean well, some just take it overboard with you can and cannot do this with this Tang and such. You can add fish to your tank that will outgrow it, BUT, you need to look inward upon yourself and truly ask are you willing to give it away, not matter how much you paid for it, for free to a home with a bigger tank.

This topic will always be heated, but, I fell it is heated because we all care, so its definitely not a wasted topic.

Bill - Excellent insight about the continued internal organ growth relative to stunted overall growth! Never thought about that before But will try to better gauge in the future for when to re-home!

I really enjoy the constant learning here on R2R and appreciate how my reefing thoughts and beliefs are constantly evolving.

 

[Nick Steele]

I’m all for the upgrading for a fish or trading a fish out if possible. But knowing myself I’ll start to adore the fish to much and have to keep it no matter what. This is why I haven’t bought a small 1.5” tomini or sail fin tang I see at my lfs at least once a month for the past two years.

 

[PeterC99]

I’m all for the upgrading for a fish or trading a fish out if possible. But knowing myself I’ll start to adore the fish to much and have to keep it no matter what. This is why I haven’t bought a small 1.5” tomini or sail fin tang I see at my lfs at least once a month for the past two years.

Great knowledge and self control! Very definition of the Responsible Reefer!

 

[mdb_talon]

I d

 

[srcleary]

Very, VERY, envious!

If you do purchase, would you please post some pictures? At least the rest of us Reefers can live vicariously through you!

If I purchase, will send pics for sure. But I haven't been give a price yet. A little afraid to hear it. LOL. But it would make an awesome #1 specimen for the tank!

 

[snorklr]

i think one problem with the op's idea is that nobody really has a clue how long it will take a particular fish to reach "critical mass" for a given size tank....if say live aquaria(just an example,basically anyone that sells fish) stated...this fish will be this size in 6 mo, this size in a year,2 years, etc maybe you could figure out how long you could keep it before you rehome or have to upgrade and realize thats way too short to be feasible...i think people might realize the fish will get huge but assume it takes 10 years or more to happen....back in the infancy of this hobby virtually none of the commonly available fish were suitable for the tanks we were trying to keep them in but we managed to kill them long before their size became a problem....even goldfish get over a foot long but people happily keep them in little bowls

 

[PeterC99]

i think one problem with the op's idea is that nobody really has a clue how long it will take a particular fish to reach "critical mass" for a given size tank....if say live aquaria(just an example,basically anyone that sells fish) stated...this fish will be this size in 6 mo, this size in a year,2 years, etc maybe you could figure out how long you could keep it before you rehome or have to upgrade and realize thats way too short to be feasible...i think people might realize the fish will get huge but assume it takes 10 years or more to happen....back in the infancy of this hobby virtually none of the commonly available fish were suitable for the tanks we were trying to keep them in but we managed to kill them long before their size became a problem....even goldfish get over a foot long but people happily keep them in little bowls

What's the average lifespan of a fish in a home aquarium?