Nuocmam
Valuable Member
So the coral pictures isn't even the same coral for sale?
rnegret cornbred chalices opinion
- Thread starter ReeferBill
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So the coral pictures isn't even the same coral for sale?
RalphsReef
Well-Known Member
I have bought from him a few times. It was before the $800 boogers became part of his lineup, though. I prefer to do a little hunting and find pieces elsewhere, for much less. I am not into the "name game" and feel it is a stunt to overprice corals. Do I have named pieces? Yes. Because I like they way they look, not because someone has put a goofy name on it. I enjoy this hobby, however quite a few people have gotten really greedy with it. It's to the point that it is almost a rip-off with some of these online vendors. But, the saying "a fool and his money are soon parted" rings very true in this hobby.
duke4130
Valuable Member
Understood.... I have some unamed corals that i like better than some of the named ones.. We are talking about 1 coral that cost $800 in his lineup and that is a piece that you can not find anywhere else and if you do, you have to worry about flakes, and most likely shipping then someone that will take your money and not ship...etc... I would rather pay a little more with Rich than to go through the aggravation of having to deal with flakes sometimes.I know if I buy something from Rich it is going to come in alive and healthy and healed. Rich has the best packaging that i have seen, he also realizes that you just dropped $800 on that little 1 eyed frag he will most likely throw in a freebee to ease the pain...LOL... He isn't charging $1500 like other places for little 1 eyed frags (which he probably could) I personally think that the rainbow crush is one of the nicest chalices I have seen and reasonably priced compared to some other guys that sell other collector chalices. Over all, i think he is a cool guy and a very generous person and has great communication and honestly, I have been into high end collector corals for the past couple of years and I have to say he has some of the nicest stock around.
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BillyC
Valuable Member
I don't doubt that his corals are nice or that he's a good guy. It's just absurd that he uses other people's pictures to represent what he's selling when it's a totally different coral altogether. It's not really honest at all.
I have witnessed it first hand. I found my friend's picture of his rainbow millepora on his eBay listing except he changed the name to "blow pop" Mille. The most ridiculous thing about it is that he saturated the picture like crazy. Now if that is not misleading or dishonest, then I don't know what is.
swannyson7
Moderator/Acro Aficianado
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For those of you who feel his using pictures without permission is ok, I suggest you read the laws regarding intellectual property rights. By law, the image is the property of the photographer (regardless of whether or not the image is copyrighted) and permission should be obtained for its use. The sad thing is that if he took the 10 minutes to contact the photographer, he probably would have been granted permission. I just see it as a reflection of poor business ethics.
Nuocmam
Valuable Member
Man if anybody here sold corals with pics of different corals altogether regardless if they were his or not we would put them on blast like you wouldn't believe. But it's ok if he's a nice guy? Really? Of course he's nice to you. You are giving him money. I will be nice to you if you give me money. Heck more money will get you more freebies. Many of the vendors here will act like your best friend if you spend some money with them. If they were mean or jerks to you then you wouldn't be a repeat customer and stop giving them money. See how the word "money" keeps coming up? And please lets not turns this discussion into a who pays how much for 1 eye of such and such. There's other threads for that. Do I agree with his practice of using stolen photos or photos that aren't even of the same coral for sale? Absolutely not.
That being said would I purchase say a Rainbow Crush or Crazy Clown from him? Maybe. Only because he has what I want not because how nice he is to me when I'm giving him my hard earned money. If I wanted somebody to be nice to me when I give them lots of money it wouldn't be from a dude on the Internet
just sayin.
That being said would I purchase say a Rainbow Crush or Crazy Clown from him? Maybe. Only because he has what I want not because how nice he is to me when I'm giving him my hard earned money. If I wanted somebody to be nice to me when I give them lots of money it wouldn't be from a dude on the Internet
just sayin.
Wesley42079
Valuable Member
True statement and I agree woth you 100%.
I dealt with a vendor who was very nice to me when I spent $600+ on corals.
The moment something was wrong with the package, he didn't want to give me a reasonable offer to fix the issue.
Would I deal with that vendor again? No.
And using another reefers photo is wrong. If you are able to sell $800 frags, you should be able to pay someone to take pictures of your corals.
Or, learn how to take great pictures instead of leeching somebody elses.
duke4130
Valuable Member
Everyone is has a right to there own opinion and I respect that. My question is as I said in a previous post, If I have a tyree pink watermelon chalice (for example only) that I am trying to sell, the pictures that i am taking are not coming out correctly or depicting the true coloration of the coral. I pull a picture of the mother colony from the place that I purchased the colony from to sell my frag and I am not saying "WYSIWYG" but this is the colony that the frag originally came from.... Is that wrong to do???.. Or if i use another picture from a web site that has a Tyree pink watermelon and not saying it is WYSIWYG is that wrong also? We all know it is a Tyree Pink Watermelon. If it is saying WYSIWYG then I do believe that would be a problem but it is not stating that
swannyson7
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As long as you get permission from the owner of the photo and provide proper credit for the photo, it's fine. However, using the photo without permission is illegal. For the sake of ethics, it should also be pointed out that the image is not of your own colony, but that of said vendor.
KJAG
Rogue
The photography enthusiast crowd would tell you that your example is indeed wrong, and you'd be possibly subject to legal repercussions. I respect intellectual property laws, and agree that they're important, but personally think it gets blown out of proportion by over zealous amateur photographers. A guy buys a Canon EOS 5D Mark III, reads a few lighting tips and all of a sudden he's Art Wolfe. In Negrets case though, I agree with most here: he's a good guy to deal with, but its tacky to so blatantly poach others photos.
I personally have bought numerous times from Rich. I cant speak highly enough about him. His chalices arrive well packed, colors as seen from his auctions, and always a gift. I have lost some of his pieces, and i chalk that up to my own inexperience. I have called Rich many times with questions about certain things, and he has always answered my questions, and returned my missed calls. I hate to hi-jack this thread, but i believe this answers Reeferbills original post.
Next thing that should be argued is lineage. Should we give a piece a "Naming Birth date" and hand out adoption cards for every piece sold to prove it is what its being called? Can we only buy a piece from the original "namer" or is it allowed for us to purchase (usually at a reduced price) from another hobbyist? I buy what i like, when i see it.
Lets be honest folks, there are many that sell corals using enhanced pics. Isn't that considered mis-representation of a product? Put the piece on a black rack, or black back ground to make the colors pop. Its all part of getting a sale. As for seeing a pic that has been enhanced or uses some sort of photo trickery, i look to the vendor, his reputation holds more value to me than a pic of a piece that will never look the same in my tank. Something dies in my tank, i can guarantee 95% of the vendors here will say, "must be ur conditions, or the lighting, or too much flow" Its all a gamble when u buy living things. Happy today somewhere else, unhappy tomorrow in my tank.
Next thing that should be argued is lineage. Should we give a piece a "Naming Birth date" and hand out adoption cards for every piece sold to prove it is what its being called? Can we only buy a piece from the original "namer" or is it allowed for us to purchase (usually at a reduced price) from another hobbyist? I buy what i like, when i see it.
Lets be honest folks, there are many that sell corals using enhanced pics. Isn't that considered mis-representation of a product? Put the piece on a black rack, or black back ground to make the colors pop. Its all part of getting a sale. As for seeing a pic that has been enhanced or uses some sort of photo trickery, i look to the vendor, his reputation holds more value to me than a pic of a piece that will never look the same in my tank. Something dies in my tank, i can guarantee 95% of the vendors here will say, "must be ur conditions, or the lighting, or too much flow" Its all a gamble when u buy living things. Happy today somewhere else, unhappy tomorrow in my tank.
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duke4130
Valuable Member
+++1 you covered both subjects in this thread perfectly.... Nicely done!!!
Wesley42079
Valuable Member
In my opinion, it would be ok to use the vendors picture of the mother colony you got the frag from, but you will need the original photographers permission and the For Sale post should state that it is NOT a WYSIWYG.
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duke4130
Valuable Member
In the auction description it will show the frags that you are bidding on, or it will show a picture of the mother colony and detailed description of the frag that there is not a picture of. He always states WYSIWYG if need be. On another note, I bet 99% of the people in this thread have purchased from him in the past or own one of his corals.
Were you pleased with the purchase or think you were ripped off????? I my self am very pleased with my purchases and everything that was received was spot on to the description and pictures that were posted.
That is the real question at hand here... This whole thread got thrown off about pictures
darryl_v
Active Member
As pointed out by others....I think its fine to use someone elses picture if you know it to be the same, you have permission and you state that the picture is not yours.
He may be a good guy and vendor, and Im not stating otherwise, but he didnt do any of those things. For the sake of his reputation he would be better off following those guidelines IMO.
He may be a good guy and vendor, and Im not stating otherwise, but he didnt do any of those things. For the sake of his reputation he would be better off following those guidelines IMO.
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