RO/DI system diagnosis?

Brom

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Hi, thanks for your time.

I know I need to get set up with a pump to increase my RO/DI pressure. I'm hovering around 35 PSI (just got the gauge after below-detailed issues). I'm curious if anybody thinks there is anything else I should consider with my setup:

I ended up running RO/DI into my 140 DT for a pre-plumbing leak test, to also gauge the RO/DI system performance. After setup I ran say 30 minutes down drain then went for it. By quick estimate I did about 95 gallons in 76 hrs for 1.25 gph. I setup a 2 channel TDS in-line and range 6-11 in (between membrane and DI) and 1-3 out. I only checked this intermittently once I realized after first 24 hrs (my stab at getting past TDS creep) that I wasn't going to get an always zero TDS out. I presumed low pressure and ordered the gauge to confirm. I noticed my cartridges looked cruddy earlier than..I guess I expected? I've never had a system before, but after reading around it seems to be variable in appearance vs. performance. This is the BRS 75 GPD so 5 micron sediment filter 5 micron carbon block and the color changing DI. Picture is after sitting idle for a week or so. I hacked up my town's 2019 water report below too. I also don't currently know my tap TDS but could head to LFS for a reasonable guess. Thanks for any advice!

IMG_4093.jpg


water.jpg
 
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Biglew11

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is this a new rodi unit? first filter looks used 6-11 tds after membrane is not terrible, not great but not terrible.
di resin looks used up this account for the 1-3 tds coming out of the system. your right, 35 psi is low and a booster pump will do wonders. the higher you can get the pressure at the ro membrane the more efficient it will be. you should test the tds of the water coming into the unit, you then take the output tds of the ro membrane divide by the source tds multiplied by one hundred. (ro/source x100) = rejection rate. should be between 96-99 percent.

i,d also switch the filters to either 1 or .5 micron filters, you didn't say how fast the di resin was used up? 6-11 going in isn't terrible but could use it up a little bit faster, there may be co2 in the source water.
it might be worthwhile to add di stages to split the di resin, cation first then anion. maybe a third with mixed bed. this will let you change out the used up resin without wasting any.

something like this lets you add on easily.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dual-deionization-canister-with-trm-1-triple-tds-meter.html
 
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Brom

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is this a new rodi unit? first filter looks used 6-11 tds after membrane is not terrible, not great but not terrible.
di resin looks used up this account for the 1-3 tds coming out of the system. your right, 35 psi is low and a booster pump will do wonders. the higher you can get the pressure at the ro membrane the more efficient it will be. you should test the tds of the water coming into the unit, you then take the output tds of the ro membrane divide by the source tds multiplied by one hundred. (ro/source x100) = rejection rate. should be between 96-99 percent.

i,d also switch the filters to either 1 or .5 micron filters, you didn't say how fast the di resin was used up? 6-11 going in isn't terrible but could use it up a little bit faster, there may be co2 in the source water.
it might be worthwhile to add di stages to split the di resin, cation first then anion. maybe a third with mixed bed. this will let you change out the used up resin without wasting any.

something like this lets you add on easily.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dual-deionization-canister-with-trm-1-triple-tds-meter.html
Thanks a bunch-yes new unit. I'm not necessarily declaring the resin used up, will pressure perhaps get me to 0 out? Or just reject less? There's only been maybe 120 gallons through that resin.
 

Water Dog

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Your DI resin should be producing 0 TDS... methinks your resin is shot. Higher pressure will improve efficiency of the RO membrane so your post RO membrane TDS should improve with a booster pump. Do you know what the TDS is from the tap?
 
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Brom

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Your DI resin should be producing 0 TDS... methinks your resin is shot. Higher pressure will improve efficiency of the RO membrane so your post RO membrane TDS should improve with a booster pump. Do you know what the TDS is from the tap?
Thanks for info on resin. I'll see if maybe a tap down is in order, I didn't open any cartridge out of box. FWIW I ordered rodi in Feb and didn't run it until mid June?

Still don't know tap TDS, might get over to LFS this week to see.
 
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Hmm I don't recall if there ever was one but it didn't sit idle in one. Just the sealed cartridge within the foam spray covered in plastic thing BRS does. Do you have a resin recommendation? I'll get on top of a new order. Thanks!
 

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That would still allow the resin in the cartridge to dry out if the system sat unused. Unused resin should be sealed in a Mylar bag and refrigerated. Once a system is in use, the resin is fine because it stays wet due to the water trapped in the DI canister.

I have a dual DI canister set up, so I use Spectrapure MaxCap DI and SilicaBuster DI cartridges. For your single DI canister set up, any bulk mixed bed DI resin will work. Just make sure you pack the cartridge very tightly and be sure to seal your unused resin back into the Mylar bag and refrigerate it. My understanding is that it should last up to a year when sealed and stored properly in the fridge. Also, I’m not a fan of color changing DI resins. I’d rather save the money and rely on the TDS reading from the meter.
 
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Brom

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That would still allow the resin in the cartridge to dry out if the system sat unused. Unused resin should be sealed in a Mylar bag and refrigerated. Once a system is in use, the resin is fine because it stays wet due to the water trapped in the DI canister.

I have a dual DI canister set up, so I use Spectrapure MaxCap DI and SilicaBuster DI cartridges. For your single DI canister set up, any bulk mixed bed DI resin will work. Just make sure you pack the cartridge very tightly and be sure to seal your unused resin back into the Mylar bag and refrigerate it. My usderatnding is that it should last up to a year sealed and stored in the fridge. Also, I’m not a fan of color changing resins. I’d rather rely on the TDS reading from the meter.
Awesome because the color changing is out of stock and I have inline TDS haha. Thanks I really appreciate your insight.
 

monti mike

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The resin chamber will also be more of a darker black color when it’s new and turn a brownish color as it gets used up. Your DI resin chamber looks pretty brown so it may be spent.
 

monti mike

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The resin chamber will also be more of a darker black color when it’s new and turn a brownish color as it gets used up. Your DI resin chamber looks pretty brown so it may be spent.
Here’s my BRS 4 stage unit. I make about 10 gallons a week and I’ve had it for... maybe 5 months or so. You can see the DI resin chamber on the far right is a dark color. Zero TDS leaving the DI chamber. Hope that helps!
9881EB2A-00BB-4990-BD03-74E394DC9D01.jpeg
 
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Brom

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Here’s my BRS 4 stage unit. I make about 10 gallons a week and I’ve had it for... maybe 5 months or so. You can see the DI resin chamber on the far right is a dark color. Zero TDS leaving the DI chamber. Hope that helps!
9881EB2A-00BB-4990-BD03-74E394DC9D01.jpeg
Awesome I'm pretty confident resin is spent, not sure whether that was a BRS packaging thing or a me opening and leaving thing. Looking for one more random $5 to get to free shipping then clicking go on the replacement resin. Thank you.
 
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Brom

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After a little bit of price shopping I decided to bump myself to free shipping with BRS's booster pump kit too so hopefully this is now a moot thread!
 

Opus

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That would still allow the resin in the cartridge to dry out if the system sat unused. Unused resin should be sealed in a Mylar bag and refrigerated. Once a system is in use, the resin is fine because it stays wet due to the water trapped in the DI canister.

I have a dual DI canister set up, so I use Spectrapure MaxCap DI and SilicaBuster DI cartridges. For your single DI canister set up, any bulk mixed bed DI resin will work. Just make sure you pack the cartridge very tightly and be sure to seal your unused resin back into the Mylar bag and refrigerate it. My understanding is that it should last up to a year when sealed and stored properly in the fridge. Also, I’m not a fan of color changing DI resins. I’d rather save the money and rely on the TDS reading from the meter.
I've had a different experience with DI storage. I had mine in a closet for well over a year, probably more like 2 years and it was dry. I used it anyway and never noticed a difference between it and fresh DI. Still got the same amount of 0tds out of it.
 

Opus

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Thanks for info on resin. I'll see if maybe a tap down is in order, I didn't open any cartridge out of box. FWIW I ordered rodi in Feb and didn't run it until mid June?

Still don't know tap TDS, might get over to LFS this week to see.
Even with a tds of 11 going into the DI cartridge, it still should produce around 400 gallons of 0 tds water (assuming no CO2 issue). There should be an arrow on the DI cartridge, make sure you have it pointing up (Don't ask how I know this).
 
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My understanding is that if the resin dries out, it losses it’s electrical charge and is no longer effective. I read that years ago on an RC thread with AZDesertRat where Russ from Buckeye Hydro chimed in to confirm that stored DI resin indeed needs to stay moist. Those guys are water treatment professionals so that’s what I’m going by! :)
 

Opus

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My understanding is that if the resin dries out, it losses it’s electrical charge and is no longer effective. I read that years ago on an RC thread with AZDesertRat where Russ from Buckeye Hydro chimed in to confirm that stored DI resin indeed needs to stay moist. Those guys are water treatment professionals so that’s what I’m going by! :)
That is what I read too, but it didn't seem to affect the resin I had.
 

Water Dog

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If what they are saying is is true, and I have no reason not to believe them, then it certainly can explain why the OP’s resin depleted so quickly. I’ve ruled out CO2 from well water as OP has provided a water report, indicating city water. What else could it be?

That said, I no longer buy bulk resin. I hate packing the stuff cuz I get it everywhere! :mad: I buy the Spectrapure MaxCap and SilicaBuster cartridges whenever needed. My current DI cartridges are a year and a half old still and going strong! :)
 

Opus

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If what they are saying is is true, and I have no reason not to believe them, then it certainly can explain why the OP’s resin depleted so quickly. I’ve ruled out CO2 from well water as OP has provided a water report, indicating city water. What else could it be?

That said, I no longer buy bulk resin. I hate packing the stuff cuz I get it everywhere! :mad: I buy the Spectrapure MaxCap and SilicaBuster cartridges whenever needed. My current DI cartridges are a year and a half old still and going strong! :)
Same for me. That is why my resin dried out. It took well over a year for my resin to stop producing 0tds water. Went to refill it and found the bag of resin was open and dry. It was enough for 2 refills so I tried it instead of throwing it away and it worked great. Got a year out of each dried out refill. Now I just buy the single pouch when it is time to change out.
 

Buckeye Hydro

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If your resin dried out, that means it was exposed to the air. The CO2 in the air will deplete the anion resin and therefore your mixed bed refill will be shot.

Russ
 

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