RS NoPoX contains molybdenum???

Discussion in 'Reef Aquarium Discussion' started by dacianb, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    I was warned by some local Triton method users that NoPoX used for few months build up the molybdenum level in tanks to a toxic level. Normally I don't test this, but I was really surprised to find it.
    Opinions??
     
    kireek likes this.

  2. Diesel

    Diesel String Stalker. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    13,613
    Likes Received:
    15,829
    Location:
    Katy
    Yes, I have heard that too.
    All though I don't use it and never has it might be a problem for hobbyist that sometimes using it as I always say the easy way out high nutrients level.
    Let's shine some light on this with @Randy Holmes-Farley and the [HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]
     
    kireek likes this.
  3. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    Once more the easy way is not the best way. I am using this and had great results and so easy to use (actually always postponed my algae scrubber / fuge system due to this). Why should I work to build new stuff when I can just drop some liquids in tank and have great results??? :eek: But now I am a bit scared...
     
    Kungpaoshizi likes this.
  4. sticky polyps

    sticky polyps Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    Bradenton FL
    I would love to hear more about this. I use a homebrew nopox (1 part vodka 2 parts vinegar). I am interested in molybdenum and how dangerous it could really be. I use fuel for AAs and I know there is molybdenum in that as well. good topic!
     
  5. MikeyAl

    MikeyAl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    Alabama
    Interesting. I use it although I admit not routinely.
     
  6. redfishbluefish

    redfishbluefish Stay Positive, Stay Productive Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor NJRC Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8,798
    Likes Received:
    13,897
    Location:
    Sayreville, NJ
    Molybdenum is in all salt mixes that I'm aware of (and been tested) at levels above natural sea water. I'll see if I can find the article about ions in seawater and get back to you.

    What level of Mo did they find?

    EDIT TO ADD:

    Found it! HERE'S an article on "Elemental composition of commercial seasalts." Check page 41 for the Moly numbers.

    Natural seawater has a level of 0.1, while the salts tested ranged from 1.8 to 3.3 milliequivalents per liter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
    Kungpaoshizi likes this.
  7. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    Thanks redfishbluefish.
    They didnt told me numbers, but agreed that after 6 months of Nopox, Molybdenum reached "toxic levels" and they stopped (I think Triton users really monitor such chemicals, we, regular users never do).
    Honestly I not even knew that there are Molybdenum tests on market :rolleyes: until today
     
  8. sticky polyps

    sticky polyps Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    Bradenton FL
    is this element in question something that would be consumed by coral? if not I would be worried about it getting to harmful levels as well. anyone know what a dangerous lvl would be? thinking about switching to acropower for AAs...
     
  9. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    no, is not coral food, but a commercial NO3 reduction method similar with vodka dosing (supposedly safer)
     
  10. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,858
    Likes Received:
    19,598
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    I do not know what metals NOPOX has in it, and I've not seen any analysis of the metals part of NOPOX, but it does claim to have some:

    http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/algae-management-program/no3po4-x/

    from it:

    "The Red Sea NO3: PO4-X complex includes other organic-bonded elements that are important stimulators in each stage of the reduction process. These metal and non-metals elements ensure steady bacterial propagation, complete nitrate reduction to nitrogen gas as well as the absorption and utilization of phosphate by the bacteria."
     
  11. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,858
    Likes Received:
    19,598
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    All organisms need molybdenum, and photosynthetic organisms that do not get it from foods must get it from the water. :)

    I do not intentionally supplement molybdenum, and my Triton testing showed it to be low.

    http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/
     
    dacianb likes this.
  12. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    Thanks, but do you add Nopox to system?
    Agree that molybdenum have to be there in certain concentration, but what if can build up to dangerous levels?? I am really bad at chemistry (didnt like since school :rolleyes: ) but at least I know that lot of important elements , good for different organisms and functions can become pure poison in larger quantities.
     
  13. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,858
    Likes Received:
    19,598
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    No, I do not use NOPOX. I use vinegar. :)
     
  14. MikeyAl

    MikeyAl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    Alabama
    Just plain white vinegar? Same dosing procedure as vodka?
     
  15. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,858
    Likes Received:
    19,598
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    Similar. It is 8-fold more dilute, so you dose more.

    Also, while all organic carbon dosing reduces pH, vinegar does it more initially and less later while vodka does it all later after it is converted into CO2.

    So you need to keep the pH effects in mind and there are a variety of tricks to that, such as dosing slowly during the day with a dosing pump, or manual dosing with vinegar saturated with calcium hydroxide. :)
     
    Diesel likes this.
  16. Kungpaoshizi

    Kungpaoshizi Valuable Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    Earf
    Last time I had my triton test done on my tank molyb was not out of wack. I use nopox.
    Lots of naysayers here about it, but it's formulated by a team of people and has multitudes of scrutiny over the years. Check out reviews, many of them had bad experiences with vodka, vinegar, biopellets, etc.
     
  17. dacianb

    dacianb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Belgium
    I tried vodka and vinegar in the past and almost ruined the tank. With nopox was fine until i heard about molyb.
    Maybe regular water changes keep it diluted? As triton dont change water ☺
     
  18. Diesel

    Diesel String Stalker. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    13,613
    Likes Received:
    15,829
    Location:
    Katy
    Yup, why would you?
    I see hobbyist who have build them a Algae Scrubber save money long term and once a while they feed their Tangs some much healthy harvest algae which save money on food again plus you won't have any worries of a chemical in your tank that you don't know what's in there.

    Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley for the info for this hobbyist.
     
    cmanning317 and Sabellafella like this.
  19. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,858
    Likes Received:
    19,598
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States

    FWIW, when I say mine was low, it was low enough that it might be useful to supplement since it was less than 1/4 of the NSW value.

    So if there is molybdenum in NOPOX (I have no idea one way or the other), that might have been useful (assuming it was there is an appropriate amount to supplement and not over supplement my tank). :)
     
  20. MikeyAl

    MikeyAl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    Alabama
    I am gonna stick with PO3:NO4 from Red Sea. Sure I pay a bit more than using vodka or vinegar. And okay molybdenum- but I have been using for a long time and I like the results.
     
    dacianb likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page