Running High Nitrates But Zero Phosphate

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#reefsquad (<< Is this thing on 😆??)

Guys, I could use some advice, please. I've got a relatively new 25 AIO that has been running since late February, started with about 50% dry base rock, and 50% base rock that had been in my unlit 10 gallon invert tank for well over a year. I have also added some TBS rock rubble in one of the two refgium sections, I also temporarily placed a few chunks of TBS rock in the display, and I let the whole thing brew for a couple of months, before starting to stock with corals and turn the lights on. This is a fish-less coral and invert tank.

Since the start, this tank has been running high nitrate and very low to zero phosphate, which is a situation I've never personally encountered before. I believe it's because this is a fish-less tank, so I'm not feeding fish, obviously 🤪

I've done MANY relatively large (approaching like 80%) water changes in the life of this tank, and the nitrate always creeps back up; it's gone as high as 70 ppm.

I've been adding Reef Roids to raise the phosphate (that's all I have on hand). When adding the Reef Roids a pinch a day, I've been able to get the phosphate as high as about 17 ppB on the Hanna Phosphorus ULR Checker. I have been busy this week, and didn't add the Reef Roids for the last two days, and when I tested tonight, I got zero for phosphate. My nitrate today was about 52 ppm. I did another large water change because I have a bright green Psammocora that seems to go brown when the nitrate gets high, but I really don't want to be at nearly zero phosphate.

Again, this is a new situation for me. In the past when I've used dry rocks, I saw rather high phosphate, presumably from phosphates bound to the rock.

Since I have high nitrate but very low phosphate, I thought this tank may be a good candidate for carbon dosing, which I've read has a greater effect on lowering nitrate, but doesn't affect phosphate much. I"ve been doing a solution of 75% white vinegar and 25% vodka. I even sprung for Belvedere vodka because I want the best for my tank 🤥

So far, the carbon dosing isn't doing much to lower my nitrate. I've been told it can take some time to work, and I know that the bacteria need phosphate to grow. I'm also not really liking the IM NuvoSkim skimmer I installed here specifically because I started dosing carbon.

Do you guys have any suggestions for me here? I have been considering trying TM's NP Bacto Balance, which is an organic carbon source that claims it never drives either nitrate or phosphate too low. It clams to maintain both at low, but non-zero, concentrations. I like the sound of that, but I'm not thrilled to have to buy a relatively expensive (compared to vinegar/vodka) product here.

Should I try to dose a form of phosphate directly? Or is there a more appropriate product to try rather than the NP Bacto Balance?

I really don't want to be at zero phosphate, my corals look OK, but not great, and I think this is likely why.

Again, relevant parameters just tonight are:
Nitrate: 52 ppm Hanna HR Checker
Phosphate: 0 ppb Hanna Phosphorous ULR Checker

Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you all in advance!!

This tank about 4 days ago:
IMG_1281.jpeg
IMG_1285.jpeg
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Carbon dosing is an option, as is growing macroalgae or ATS, but in either case, I’d dose phosphate. Food grade sodium phosphate is cheap and easy to use. Neither method is optimal with zero phosphate.

There are various denitrators one can use, as well as biopellets, but regardless of what you pick, I’d dose phosphate until a reading of at least 0.05 ppm stabilizes.
 
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Carbon dosing is an option, as is growing macroalgae or ATS, but in either case, I’d dose phosphate. Food grade sodium phosphate is cheap and easy to use. Neither method is optimal with zero phosphate.

There are various denitrators one can use, as well as biopellets, but regardless of what you pick, I’d dose phosphate until a reading of at least 0.05 ppm stabilizes.
Thank you, Randy!

Yes, I agree I need to bring my phosphate up. Unfortunately, with a small AIO here I don't have a lot of options for an ATS, biopellet reactor, or even a decent skimmer, etc. Macro algae is always an option, I have some in anther tank, though I wasn't sure if this tank with stoney corals would be "right" for macro algae.

Would you suggest dosing sodium phosphate to get my phosphate up, and then continuing with the carbon dosing to hopefully bring nitrates down? I do understand some here run very good looking tanks with high nitrate, but I'd like to lower that too if possible.

Thanks again for your help here!

#reefsquad where are you guys?! 🤣
 
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Yes, I’d bring up phosphate and start carbon dosing if nitrate keeps rising. Don’t want to risk dinos.
Thank you again! I've been dosing a 75% vinegar and 25% vodka solution for maybe three weeks now. I'll get my phosphates up, and continue the carbon dosing.

Thank you again for your help here, I very much appreciate it!
 

Crabs McJones

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Right here, I know diddily squat about this subject. Sorry 😬
1000003398.jpg
 
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It also includes a link of the one I recommend buying.
 
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It also includes a link of the one I recommend buying.
Thank you, I was just looking on Amazon for the phosphate, but I'd appreciate the suggestion!
 
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Following along as I get this issue too. The two times I temporarily got rid of it was dosing Phos and NoPox and then dosing phos with NP-elim to balance out. But it tends to come back for me. Do you run a skimmer?
I have a small IM 25 AIO here, so kind of limited with what's available, but yes, I have the IM NuvoSkim skimmer currently. I'm not loving it, it's skimming very wet, and I'm seeing micro bubbles in the display that only starts when I added the skimmer.

Thank you for your reply here!
 

officialreefbros

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I have a small IM 25 AIO here, so kind of limited with what's available, but yes, I have the IM NuvoSkim skimmer currently. I'm not loving it, it's skimming very wet, and I'm seeing micro bubbles in the display that only starts when I added the skimmer.

Thank you for your reply here!
Same! Mines a WB25 and all the skimmer have been challenging or don't fit well with a radion mount. We need a 25g HOB skimmer @IOAOI 😉
 
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It also includes a link of the one I recommend buying.
Awesome write up! That's the same phosphate product I was looking at 🙂

Is this something you'd expect that I would need to dose all the time, given the history of the tank, and that I have no plans for fish (or fish food!) in this tank? Should I be looking to setup another dose for this?
 
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Hey Fish. I have some sodium phosphate from Loud Wolf that I can send you. Let me know
Hey, thank you so much for the offer! Are you sure it wouldn't be any trouble? It's not super expensive for me to buy, I was just about to order some on Amazon.
 

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No trouble at all. The bottle I have will last about 325 years...LOL.
DM me your address brother.
 
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No trouble at all. The bottle I have will last about 325 years...LOL.
DM me your address brother.
That's quite a long time lol!

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it 🙂
 

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I will also add my thoughts in the morning. It's getting late here and I'm crashing.
 

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