Rust like color on my sand?

[CourtNjoeZreef]

So i have a previous post about my nitrates and Phosphates, feeding the tank to raise nitrates and battling some dinos. Ultimately went with brightwell's microbater 7, Bio fuel, and Neophos additives. i feel that i have corrected that balance issue and my corals look nice and i am seeing some growth across the board. My water is crystal clear in a white bucket probably thanks to a carbon reactor. I also added a Icecap 2k gyre pump to stir up the tank a bit more. unfortunately it is a 55g tall so it is fairly deep which i feel is a issue in and of itself. but neither here nor there. I will attach some photos but first an explanation of my issue.


I have algae growth that i have been battling for months with manual removal and the addition of 2 pincushions & a severely overpriced yellow tang. they are growing well and a fat belly on the tang shows me they are doing their part. so i get what looks like brown algae in the tank but when it is removed it is most certainly a green color with a rather course texture very thick strands so I am led to believe this is a good algae uptaking nutrients as it should. The problem comes in here. On my sandbed which is rather tightly packed there is a rust colored film i suppose, and is spreading at a rather slow pace. This film started around the rocks and i hardly noticed it before i got the out of control algae to slow down, since algae slowed the rust colored film has started to spread. I am wondering if this is a percipitation of calcium? i took a full test pallet (the ones i have) and will list them below.

Other mentionables are :
* skimmer has been off since starting the brightwell regimine
* Feed frozen food at noon and then again around 9pm along with Ocean Majik, & Reef AB+
* 15ml of all for reef daily
* 31ml Of Kalkwasser daily
Stocked w/ Mixed coral varieties
1 Lawn mower blenny, 1 Six Line wrasse, 1 Pearly head Jawfish, 1 Flame tang, 1 Yellow tang, 1 clown (plain old), 3 Green Chromis,1 Cleaner Shrimp, 2 Pincushion Urchins, 1 Carpet anemone, 1 Long tentacle anemone, and 25 Nassarius snails. The sump and basically every nook on the rock work has pineapple sponges galore.

Measurements within the last 12 hrs are as follows:
water Temp- 78F
PH - 8.4
Phosphate- .04ppm
Nitrate- 20ppm
magnesium- 1125
DKH- 11
Calcium- 470ppm
Salinity- 1.025sg
(i see no point in checking ammonia & nitrite since they have been at zero 2 weeks after setup)

Thank you in advance! pictures will tell the rest of the story

 

[Gedxin]

Can't comment on the rust color algae, could be cyano (high nitrates and low phosphates sometimes contributes to it.)

I'm kinda shocked at the amount of GHA you have. That's...a lot. Your CUC doesn't have any algae eating snails, and seems your only inverts for help are the urchins. Nassarius only eat food, and won't touch the algae. Along with a lot of manual removal, I'd suggest a much larger algae-eating CUC.

If @brandon429 were around, he'd probably recommend a rip clean. Reset all the things.

 

[brandon429]

I 100% recommend that because we dont want to process all that mass in the system even if we can kill it with a pill or an animal, we want it gone, excluded, and a clean place where that one formerly sat. this one thread has every detail covered:

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

as you can see in the 5x work examples there, read em all, the sand will be fixed and the rocks will be fixed. if the tank is large and this will take a lot of work, ouch/large tankers headaches. still the best fix, you don't want to process and recirculate all that mass in the system you want it all instantly gone and the effort goes into growback prevention, in the zero mass condition.

right now all efforts are aimed at partial kill, and no efforts aimed at growback. I rip clean resets all that and still keeps the fish, rocks, sand, corals and filter bacteria in place. we dont use bottled bac in these cleanups. we use tap water

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

Can't comment on the rust color algae, could be cyano (high nitrates and low phosphates sometimes contributes to it.)

I'm kinda shocked at the amount of GHA you have. That's...a lot. Your CUC doesn't have any algae eating snails, and seems your only inverts for help are the urchins. Nassarius only eat food, and won't touch the algae. Along with a lot of manual removal, I'd suggest a much larger algae-eating CUC.

If @brandon429 were around, he'd probably recommend a rip clean. Reset all the things.

GHA = Green Hair Algae? and yes its rather overwhelming... =/ i haven't had any luck keeping trochus alive and havent found any other snails locally as of yet.. supplier issues ect. The nitrates i have to dose in or else in a week they bottom out so right now thats only there due to a splace of neophos

Rip as in rip it out?

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

I 100% recommend that because we dont want to process all that mass in the system even if we can kill it with a pill or an animal, we want it gone, excluded, and a clean place where that one formerly sat. this one thread has every detail covered:

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

as you can see in the 5x work examples there, read em all, the sand will be fixed and the rocks will be fixed. if the tank is large and this will take a lot of work, ouch/large tankers headaches. still the best fix, you don't want to process and recirculate all that mass in the system you want it all instantly gone and the effort goes into growback prevention, in the zero mass condition.

right now all efforts are aimed at partial kill, and no efforts aimed at growback. I rip clean resets all that and still keeps the fish, rocks, sand, corals and filter bacteria in place. we dont use bottled bac in these cleanups. we use tap water

After reading some of the linked post then following a link to another wonderful tank i am going to as you say "do the work".

I LOVE my tank and i am learning on this one. My wife and i plan to upgrade to a 220g system within the next year or two and grow it with our newborn. I am going to disassemble my boulder rock scape. I have a egg crate ( the plastic square stuff) in the bottom of this tank that i want to remove anyway.

Are there any suggestions from viewing the rock configuration as to how to increase flow through and not create pockets to trap detritus?

also for flow rate and placement of the gyre & powerheads

Ty
Joe&Court

 

[Billldg]

After reading some of the linked post then following a link to another wonderful tank i am going to as you say "do the work".

I LOVE my tank and i am learning on this one. My wife and i plan to upgrade to a 220g system within the next year or two and grow it with our newborn. I am going to disassemble my boulder rock scape. I have a egg crate ( the plastic square stuff) in the bottom of this tank that i want to remove anyway.

Are there any suggestions from viewing the rock configuration as to how to increase flow through and not create pockets to trap detritus?

also for flow rate and placement of the gyre & powerheads

Ty
Joe&Court

The flow has to be played with and the scape has to be designed for that purpose. I left a 4 in gap along the backside of my tank and have 2 MP40's on either side to blow the back side out. It has actually pushed the sand out from the back, but I am good with that as its not really seen and it prevents a detritus trap.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You have green hair algae and diatoms going here. Best plan of attack is to address the hair algae issue first, Diatoms are part of the cycling process and not an issue of concern with effect of aquatic life.
First give the entire surface a light siphoning for appearance and removal of surface coating. Pull as much algae as you can by hand, There after, you can add snails such as astrea, turbo grazers, nerite, cerith and nassarius to assist with clean up.
For diatoms which are a brown algae that typically appear in a reef tank that has just completed its cycle but they can also appear in an established reef tank. They can cover sand, rock, pumps, glass, you name it. Diatoms look ugly but in most cases they are harmless so the key is to not panic when they appear.
Diatoms feed mainly off of silicates but also consume dissolved organic compounds, phosphate and nitrates. Unfiltered tap water can contain silicates and is a good way to jump start a bloom if you use it to mix salt or to replace water that evaporated from the tank. The best way to prevent this from happening is to filter water through a RODI unit, although you can still get a diatom bloom when using RODI if the cartridge that removes silicates expires.
diatoms are typically harmless to a captive reef and can be beaten once their food source expires. Once you put the kibosh on the source, the outbreak should last a couple of weeks so just be patient and it will pass. For major outbreaks you may want to consider the three day blackout. Diatoms are easily wiped from the glass with a mag float, a turkey baster or a toothbrush can access other areas of the tank. Be prepared for them to re-establish themselves quickly, they are likely to be able to resettle and have exponential growth rates.
To prevent their return, practice good aquarium husbandry by doing regular water changes, keep the substrate clean, don’t overfeed the fish, ensure your skimmer is running at an optimal level and rinse out filter socks and sponges on a regular basis.

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

You have green hair algae and diatoms going here. Best plan of attack is to address the hair algae issue first, Diatoms are part of the cycling process and not an issue of concern with effect of aquatic life.
First give the entire surface a light siphoning for appearance and removal of surface coating. Pull as much algae as you can by hand, There after, you can add snails such as astrea, turbo grazers, nerite, cerith and nassarius to assist with clean up.
For diatoms which are a brown algae that typically appear in a reef tank that has just completed its cycle but they can also appear in an established reef tank. They can cover sand, rock, pumps, glass, you name it. Diatoms look ugly but in most cases they are harmless so the key is to not panic when they appear.
Diatoms feed mainly off of silicates but also consume dissolved organic compounds, phosphate and nitrates. Unfiltered tap water can contain silicates and is a good way to jump start a bloom if you use it to mix salt or to replace water that evaporated from the tank. The best way to prevent this from happening is to filter water through a RODI unit, although you can still get a diatom bloom when using RODI if the cartridge that removes silicates expires.
diatoms are typically harmless to a captive reef and can be beaten once their food source expires. Once you put the kibosh on the source, the outbreak should last a couple of weeks so just be patient and it will pass. For major outbreaks you may want to consider the three day blackout. Diatoms are easily wiped from the glass with a mag float, a turkey baster or a toothbrush can access other areas of the tank. Be prepared for them to re-establish themselves quickly, they are likely to be able to resettle and have exponential growth rates.
To prevent their return, practice good aquarium husbandry by doing regular water changes, keep the substrate clean, don’t overfeed the fish, ensure your skimmer is running at an optimal level and rinse out filter socks and sponges on a regular basis.

I use RODI 4stage & my home on a whole house softener system to remove chlorine chloramine heavy metals ect. the ph is a solid 8.4 I do a 10g water change weekly and use that time to siphon pull out algae at the same time. unfortunately this issue isn't from a lack of maintenance to the degree that makes most this bad. im worried that a several day blackout would harm the corals?

I am going to take the tank down and give a really deep cleaning to everything and try a new rock setup.

I have a spare 40g breeder that im going to move the livestock to while i do this. I have liverock in my sump that ill move into a HOB for the time they are housed in it.

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

The flow has to be played with and the scape has to be designed for that purpose. I left a 4 in gap along the backside of my tank and have 2 MP40's on either side to blow the back side out. It has actually pushed the sand out from the back, but I am good with that as its not really seen and it prevents a detritus trap.

thank you sir ill give that a shot. my back half is just a wall.. the front has some negative space but not nearly what i think i should have

 

[Billldg]

thank you sir ill give that a shot. my back half is just a wall.. the front has some negative space but not nearly what i think i should have

I am using 2 MP40's and 2 Gyre 350's in my tank, so I have a ton of flow and have to back them down. You would have to look at my build thread to see my scape, but, I tried to design it to give me the look I was looking for and also prevent any detritus traps. I did not want to have to siphon our the back side of my tank...LOL!!!

 

[brandon429]

Hey can we do one test rock first I’ll tell you why


it’s making solely one rock perfect among the others in the unclean condition on purpose. like a dentist, we’d set that test rock on the counter and first use a knife not a brush, score scrape all the algae off at the basal attachment point it’s tedious, like dentistry. But exacting

be rinsing away scored material down the drain with saltwater

when that rock is absolutely free of invasion and looks perfect, spot apply 3% peroxide creatively / as wetted paper towel dabs or droplets placed, on the clean spots


what does the masses do - apply perox to a full beard invasion


no our way is opposite, complete metal rasping all target gone, perx on the former spots (burns tiny trace material)


after four mins rinse in sw, put back one perfect tooth

we wait a few days and ensure it stays clean, even in the tank not ready yet. If it does, then doing all the rocks exactly this way on top of pure rinsed sand perfection is darn worth the efforts



test rock lets you forecast where all this work will lead


if cleaned rocks take on mass quickly, then before the rip clean we need to find the source


this tank is smaller and easier to practice manual controls on before the big upgrade


every rock is processed that way, it’s reef surgical maxillofacial dentistry so it’s a lot of work, but in the end: no mass is circulated into your system, it’s all down the sink along with tank waste from the sand

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

Hey can we do one test rock first I’ll tell you why


it’s making solely one rock perfect among the others in the unclean condition on purpose. like a dentist, we’d set that test rock on the counter and first use a knife not a brush, score scrape all the algae off at the basal attachment point it’s tedious, like dentistry. But exacting

be rinsing away scored material down the drain with saltwater

when that rock is absolutely free of invasion and looks perfect, spot apply 3% peroxide creatively / as wetted paper towel dabs or droplets placed, on the clean spots


what does the masses do - apply perox to a full beard invasion


no our way is opposite, complete metal rasping all target gone, perx on the former spots (burns tiny trace material)


after four mins rinse in sw, put back one perfect tooth

we wait a few days and ensure it stays clean, even in the tank not ready yet. If it does, then doing all the rocks exactly this way on top of pure rinsed sand perfection is darn worth the efforts



test rock let’s you forecast where all this work will lead


if cleaned rocks take on mass quickly, then before the rip clean we need to find the source


this tank is smaller and easier to practice manual controls on before the big upgrade


every rock is processed that way, it’s reef surgical maxillofacial dentistry so it’s a lot of work, but in the end: no mass is circulated into your system, it’s all down the sink along with tank waste from the sand

absolutely. i will get back to this thread with updates asap

 

[brandon429]

The summary for action in my opinion is this:

the params we match in the various water used here are temp and salinity

your major ions aren’t needed tweaked not pH etc

so for fish holding buckets and eventual tank water that goes atop purest tap rinsed sand (final rinse in ro to evacuate tap) you only need to match temp and salinity. Cover fish while holding theyll stress jump

sand is tap for hours, totally clean, final evac rinse in ro, put back in clean reef. Don’t use bottle bac that’s our hallmark signature


we aren’t bottle bac dependent after a cycle


we were exacting on your rocks vs dips, because those carry the only bacteria you need to skip cycle. By not dosing suspended bacteria we keep the new water ultra clean and oxygenated, the peroxide dabs didn’t hurt the rock it’s too porous. There is one bazillion bacteria lol made up numbers help convey the sheer degree of cells. Some peroxide zapped ones don’t matter.

try to be more clean than the five rip cleans in the thread that’s a best of the best cherry picked group.

 

[brandon429]

Check out my friend Ollie’s tank it’s same challenge as this one

this is his clean test rock it’s held just shy of a week
soon the rest of the tank w be rip cleaned to match the test rock

see how coralline gets fresh ground we are removing competition

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

Before

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

After

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

There is still some like hard green spot algae in some of the white areas that doesn't scrape or react to the 3% hydrogen peroxide but all the GHA is gone. went faster then i thought it would thats for sure!

so we put this back to where it came from and hope that this one finishes getting coated in the coraline. i was careful not to break any of that off the rock

 

[CourtNjoeZreef]

Back in its place and looking mighty bright

 

[brandon429]

100% yes agreed sharp test under way

 

[Just John]

What I am wondering about is the nitrates. With all that GHA sucking in nitrates I would think they would be low, yet they still measure at 20. Where is it all coming from?