my levels are only about .2-.3 and he is breathing heavily. i'm not sure whether to bail or not! its making me nervous. no nitrites. he was eating yesterday. i checked on him in the middle of the night and offered food and he didn't eat but he might have been sleeping. he is also very white considering his normal coloring....but thats stress right? cupramine stresses fish, right? so this shouldn't be that surprising? i have also raised the levels up extremely slowly...1-2 drops at a time multiple times a day. i did notice that his dorsal fin dropped a bit the last time i added a drop. not sure if i should stop or keep going.
sailfin tang breathing heavily in cupramine
- Thread starter mcpeachy
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Let's get some of the fish disease/treatment experts on to help answer your questions.
@ngoodermuth @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Frtdrmrose7
@ngoodermuth @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Frtdrmrose7
Does he appear to have a white or powdered sugar dusting over him? Can you post a pic of him?
HotRocks
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If the fish is afflicted with velvet and you aren't raising the level fast enough that could be the cause of the issue. Pics would be ever so helpful.
+1 and also, how’s the ammonia looking? Do you have an alert badge? Even a small trace of ammonia can cause issues...
he has no dusting. i did go back and test and found out that he actually had higher levels of copper than i thought--.6!!! i did a small water change and brought it down to .5 but he isn't eating. what does it mean if he isn't eating? is that a normal response? i have been checking for nitrites. i don't have an ammonia badge. i thought that if there is no nitrites than there would be no ammonia?? which badge should i get? i think his breathing has gotten better since bringing down his levels of cupramine, but i think his dorsal is still mostly down and his lips look a tiny bit pink. i could post a pic in a little bit. i dont have him under light, is that a mistake? could that be why he isn't eating?
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Ammonia is the first product of fish waste which gets converted to nitrites by bacteria. If your system doesn't have enough of these bacteria you can end up with ammonia but no nitrite.
You want the Seachem Alert Badge. Copper won't allow most ammonia tests to work properly.
https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-001001-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G
I would do another water change, bring the copper down to about .35-.4 and see if he perks up there. Get him eating again and then bring it back up, just keep in mind clock restarts from when it’s brought back to .5.
I’m highly suspect that ammonia is a big part of his issue.
I’m highly suspect that ammonia is a big part of his issue.
these badges are amazing!!! so no ammonia but still nitrites...so ammonia definetly kills but doesn't nitrites?? i dosed the tanks with a huge amount of biospira. fish are eating. i have three qt going on simultaneously...i'm only at .3 in the kiri trigger fish's tank. he has rocks and sand so i think that's why its harder to get the therapeautic levels up. i noticed him purposefully putting his tail on the powerhead current. i'm pretty sure he has at least ich if he is doing that, right? he is eating and swimming around. the other day i was thinking it was stupid i had different qt tanks for the sailfin and the trigger and i combined them to have major carnage on my hands! after 30 seconds the trigger had attacked the sailfin and i was horrified and scooped the sailfin right out. now, i know i did several things wrong. 1) there was light on because i was in a dark basement (bad bad bad). 2)i added the sailfin to the trigger's tank...its only 20 gallon qt so he was probably feeling pretty defensive and wanted the sailfin to not hide where he sleeps, next to him in his rocks (which of course he did). 3) they were already stressed because there was copper in the tank.
now....i'm wondering if i have a psycho trigger on my hands that might completely attack everything in the tank once he is in my 6ft tank or is this just because of the conditions above??! he is a kiri so that family is known to be docile. he hasn't bitten me and when i put my hands in the tank he ignores them. but what will he do to my fish...i'm not sure!!!
so as far as the sailfin goes, he's got streaks and is in bad shape from his beautiful fins being bitten. ahhhhh!! i was a wreck that night. i took him out of copper, took water from a safe source (another tank i had gone fallow in last year) and started over, adding carbon so i can hopefully take care of his new needs and start copper power instead since he didn't seem to be doing well in the cupramine anyway. should i treat the sailfin with something to help repair his dorsal fin and his side fin? (helps him swim...forget what its called). treat with antibacterial? antifungal? anything?
what's the standard protocol from going from cupramine to copper power? add carbon and wait how long? is it super dangerous if traces are left?
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
I advise to do a 100% water change to make the switch.
+1, also after QT add the sail-fin first... and use an acclimation box to gauge aggression from the trigger.
If you are able, post a picture of the sail-fin. What do you mean by “streaks” like red streaks? If so, you may want antibiotics for him...
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Make that a +2 on this. It is critical to get all of the old copper out before making the switch. Copper test kits cannot differentiate between chelated and ionic copper yet they have much different potency. Not doing a 100% water change could easily leave you with copper levels too low or too high even if the test kit shows copper in range.
i had a feeling different types of coppers would mess things up. also, this trigger definetly has something that i'm not sure if its helping to have cupramine. i finally got the levels to .5 today. but he is still in the powerhead and worried seeing lots of white on his grey body. super super hard to see. i'm positive i cant get it on a photo. could it be something that doesn't get treated with cupramine? if its ich, velvet, or brook will this go away very very soon, like in a few hours?? considering a fresh water bath but not sure if that will set the clock back. should the therapeutic levels be .6? or is .5 good enough??
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
You'd be fine after a 100% change. Rinsing won't hurt but won't have a marginal impact, IMO.
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