sailfin tang breathing heavily in cupramine

ngoodermuth · May 8, 2019

It sounds/looks like maybe a secondary bacterial infection... very common with parasites. The picture is hard to see him well, if you can get a closer picture of the entire fish... maybe clean the glass a little first.

I’m not trying to be picky, just want to be sure I’m giving the best advice. I know clear pictures are sometimes easier said than done

mcpeachy · May 8, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
It sounds/looks like maybe a secondary bacterial infection... very common with parasites. The picture is hard to see him well, if you can get a closer picture of the entire fish... maybe clean the glass a little first.

I’m not trying to be picky, just want to be sure I’m giving the best advice. I know clear pictures are sometimes easier said than done

you are right. i'll clean the glass. i've been making such a mess down there constantly doing stuff with the tanks.

mcpeachy · May 8, 2019

I think the Kiri has more bubbles than anything attached to him. Hard to describe. How do I post a video??

mcpeachy · May 8, 2019

I topped off the water on the Kiri to bring down the cupramine a bit. I think it was .6, so should be almost .5 now. Is .4 therapeutic too if he has something more serious? Ordered a hanna checker. Will be here tomorrow.

mcpeachy · May 9, 2019

there are black pits in the trigger's scales. near the gils infront but they are sooooo tiny its hard to see. i think its something very serious brewing. i noticed the first pit and mentioned it earlier. now that one is getting larger albeit, still tiny at the moment and there are more starting. any idea what it is? hole in the head or lateral line disease? its just so hard to get a photo...

mcpeachy · May 9, 2019

@ngoodermuth @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Frtdrmrose7 help!!!

Brew12 · May 9, 2019

Yes, that does look like ich to me so the copper should help.

Not sure about the black spots. It could be a stress response from the copper treatment. Hard for me to say at this point.

mcpeachy · May 9, 2019

so, i thought maybe it could be a natural part of the fish, but i think its just on his right side. but that one pit that is more prominent in the first photo was there first when i first saw him. i think the other ones are developing...so, if you were to go get meds for a fish...what meds would that be JUST so you have it covered incase you need to use it. also, can i even put another med in with cupramine or am i putting him more at risk? he does have a very slight patch on his back that i feel look a little different. this is like really impossible to get on a photo. i bet its some sort of fluke. i'm not sure what to do. i already did a freshwater bath when i first got him. i am struggling with nitrites since its a qt tank....also good news! sailfin tang is totally doing well, eating, got his color back and is healing his fins! its amazing how they can do that. i'm kind of astonished by it! thank you everyone, for your advice.

Mjrenz · May 10, 2019

The best advice I'm able to give is on your ammonia in qt, water changes and biospira are your best friend. Watch the fish's breathing closely, if it's rapid then it's time for both. The breathing is a better (and quicker) indicator than the ammonia alert badge

ngoodermuth · May 10, 2019

I think it could even be velvet, which would explain the heavy breathing. Rather than bringing the level down, I’d work on continuing to gradually bring it UP.

I had the same happen with a tusk and powder brown in QT. I thought they were struggling with the copper (it was their second round for ich, so I was worried it was too much) turns out they were breathing heavy because I was still below therapeutic. Once I got it up to .5, they very quickly improved.

ngoodermuth · May 10, 2019

Also, the black marks could be the start of something bacterial. Very common side-effect of both ich/velvet and copper treatment. An antiseptic bath (acriflavine or methylene blue) would be a good start, with antibiotics on hand as a back-up in case things start to look worse.

mcpeachy · May 10, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Also, the black marks could be the start of something bacterial. Very common side-effect of both ich/velvet and copper treatment. An antiseptic bath (acriflavine or methylene blue) would be a good start, with antibiotics on hand as a back-up in case things start to look worse.

so what would be an antibiotic that you would use for that? also, can i take him out of cupramine and do that bath or will it start the treatment over..? also, i was at .6, that is why i was bringing it down. can't bring it more up i dont think without killing him! he is still showing the spots of ich or whatever it is velvet...? he is eating happily but one of the reasons i thought it was ich was because he was right in the powerhead when i would always check on him.

mcpeachy · May 10, 2019

mcpeachy said:
so what would be an antibiotic that you would use for that? also, can i take him out of cupramine and do that bath or will it start the treatment over..? also, i was at .6, that is why i was bringing it down. can't bring it more up i dont think without killing him! he is still showing the spots of ich or whatever it is velvet...? he is eating happily but one of the reasons i thought it was ich was because he was right in the powerhead when i would always check on him.

how long should he show these white spots for??!!! i would think it would be going away....

drstardust · May 10, 2019

mcpeachy said:
how long should he show these white spots for??!!! i would think it would be going away....

If ich, the spots can stay on for 3-7 days. If secondary bacterial infection...anyone's guess if untreated.

ngoodermuth · May 10, 2019

mcpeachy said:
so what would be an antibiotic that you would use for that? also, can i take him out of cupramine and do that bath or will it start the treatment over..? also, i was at .6, that is why i was bringing it down. can't bring it more up i dont think without killing him! he is still showing the spots of ich or whatever it is velvet...? he is eating happily but one of the reasons i thought it was ich was because he was right in the powerhead when i would always check on him.

Ok, sorry I misunderstood and thought you’d brought the copper down below therapeutic because of the breathing.

It won’t restart the treatment to do the antiseptic bath, there won’t be any parasites in the bath bucket to reinfect him.

If that doesn’t appear to help, the antibiotics I generally suggest for use with copper would be metroplex and furan-2 and/or kanaplex. The metroplex is good to have on the off-chance it could actually be brook... which can present similarly in different fish.

This might be helpful:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/common-antibiotics-breakdown.313609/

mcpeachy · May 13, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Ok, sorry I misunderstood and thought you’d brought the copper down below therapeutic because of the breathing.

It won’t restart the treatment to do the antiseptic bath, there won’t be any parasites in the bath bucket to reinfect him.

If that doesn’t appear to help, the antibiotics I generally suggest for use with copper would be metroplex and furan-2 and/or kanaplex. The metroplex is good to have on the off-chance it could actually be brook... which can present similarly in different fish.

This might be helpful:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/common-antibiotics-breakdown.313609/

he has opaque white marks near his fins near the spine. so i'm thinking lymph? so is that one antibiotic over the other?