saving a tank from bryopsis outbreak

Discussion in 'Nano Reefs' started by kimba, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. shornik

    shornik Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure where you're getting your information mine comes from my tank. Also this reference, Sprung "Algae a Problem Solving Guide, p, 47 (2002)". Under controls for Bryopsis, the usual "strong biological filtration" and Herbivores. The herbivores listed are:
    1. Rabbitfish
    2. Diadema Urchin
    3. Tuxedo Urchin
    4. Mitraculus crab
    5. Sea Slugs:
      1. Elysia spp (i.e. lettuce nudibranch)
      2. Caliphylia mediterranea
      3. Placiida dendriticia
      4. P. kingstoni,
      5. P. virdid, and
      6. Limpapontia capitala
    Apologies in advance for any typos.
     

  2. Triggreef

    Triggreef Zoa Addict R2R Supporter CTARS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Sorry, you are wrong here. There is still some bryopsis in my old frag tank that grows on the inlet, only because the crabs have no access to it. I'll post a pic for ya just so there is no question about this.

    I assure you I know what bryopsis is, and I have no reason to lie about mythrix crabs eating it. I do not sell them. In fact, sharing my secret here only stands to make them more scarce for myself. Not worried though since they are so plentiful. ;)
     
  3. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    in my opinion, if you scanned every peroxide thread avail for growback details, or any other algae treatment method for growback details regarding bryopsis or GHA it will come down to this if a large sample is considered-

    ID-what we refer to as bryopsis and GHA encompasses at least 10 different species and each species has different morphology, holdfast systems, and time set in to work its way into calcified anchor areas. porosity of the substrate in question matters greatly, its easier for clear reasons to see why systems employing nonporous base rock or marco rock (not particularly porous) have easier kills and low to no grow back vs tonga rock, for ex. what works in one tank for 1/10 of the possible type of invader simply may range for the other 9 possibilities

    nutrient sink variances among tanks, growback is lessened if nutrients are under control properly

    contact time and % strength variances, people who use 3% are using the weakest peroxide option available yet it comprises 99% of the work shown. when higher % are used, initial kill is amplified and growback isn't, which is why I only use 35% back when I needed it (used with lab safety measures, a blinding agent if not careful)

    a test area in the tank before treating the whole tank is the best move, to chart what a spot does before whole tank work is expended. lastly, consider one off evaluation, imagine inputting a bag of gfo one time into a system with po4 issues and never changing/refreshing it, it would allow growback as well, every algae mode we take is some form of a repeat. if growback is too much after a dedicated run, that's a fair reevaluation point.

    invasions that are allowed to set in have repeats required when using 3%, and in the case of porous rocks or varying species invading we might even have to consider +10% strength mixes if this is the chosen mode. The single best way to control any GHA or bryopsis invasion is to act on the first spot that pops up, keepers typically wait till mass coverage to directly act. all the grazers mentioned are the preventers of return, not the initial removers. that would imply leaving it in the tank to make them the removers...perpetuating the invasion cycle.


    Agreed fully on natural grazers, fully. that's how nature controls these minor patch invasions, and we are missing them in our tanks. Easy to recommend, but the real challenge is finding a bryopsis cure thread where just 10 or more tanks are cured with them. Being able to demo in one place what works is beyond hard to do, regarding true brushy bryopsis invasions anyway. For any grazer recommended, we can google a thread where it ignored the patch for example. So many other treatment options exist beyond peroxide, tech m has more pull than anything and that's an easy direct paste applied to an external test patch, no its not dependent on a contaminant we get easy patch burns with it currently and commonly. mg is part of the photosynthesis pathway and it isn't a terrible leap to think that oversaturating it might cause a backup somehow, fair mechanism for peroxide burning as well...something has to explain the initial susceptibility algae show vs other tank inhabitants. the main benefit of peroxide is the safety in attempting to see how an invader responds, if it does then its a pretty safe mode to employ, we show.

    that's growback~
    b
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  4. Triggreef

    Triggreef Zoa Addict R2R Supporter CTARS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Here it's the type of bryopsis I've dealt with:

    20151124_095211.jpg

    And my frag racks were once covered. High nutrient levels in my tank always. Thanks mithrax crabs:

    20151124_095337.jpg
     
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  5. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I caught a busy crab ripping off a valonia from the frag tank at my lfs snapped that vid right up per cell, grazing in action. the speed frame vids on youtube of 10 or so crabs cleaning up a nano reef was sick footage its there for the searching


     
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  6. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    My
    My information comes from the owner and an employee who both have said nothing touches it. Using mag (Kent tech M only) is the only thing that works. Also from searching in forums, concenses says the same, only manual removal. Searching the internet and articles. Also from asking for advice in just about all my fish groups on Facebook. Have heard of some success with peroxide which I did. Pulled everything out, toothbrush and 50/50 dip but it ended up coming back. So much so that it got on a couple frag plugs and smothered them out. I'm just about ready to throw out my rocks (Tonga) or take the tank down completely. It houses 2 Harlequins, a Wyoming white clown (the mate jumped out), a watermelon nem, coral (various types) and a peppermint shrimp. Not a lot of snails/crabs because they died off with the high magnesium concentration. It's only a 25 gallon so getting a fish that "just might eat it" is risky. As for my 55, I have an emerald crab who does not touch my bubble algae, and my peppermint shrimp won't touch the occasional aiptasia. Since putting the emerald in I lost both of my feather dusters so he is eating something!! To sum that up, what "should" work for herbivores getting rid of the stuff..... Doesn't work for me. I am that group that it just doesn't work.
     
  7. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not calling you a liar. I'm not that type of person and if you took it that way I apologize. I simply meant every thing I have read or been told, all say the same thing. Nothing will eat it. I would LOVE to find something because I'm tired of fighting this fight. But I've got Harlequins so I need to be careful nothing will harass them.
     
  8. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    I asked my LFS about the sea slugs thinking surely at least the lettuce nudibranch would eat it but he said no. Maybe I'll look into the tuxedo urchin or crab.
     
  9. shornik

    shornik Well-Known Member

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    I completely understand, I have 3 peppermint shrimp in my tank (60 Gallon) and sometimes I see Aptasia and sometimes I see that they've eaten it. So its hit and miss. I know this stuff is a pain in the butt and I don't want to claim that my tank is 100% of the stuff but with the Lettuce Nudis and the Continuum that I mentioned in the first reply to article you can get it under control without resorting to the complete tear down route. I've also used Hydrogen Peroxide as well but it can kill off some inverts and if you're not careful the coral along with the algae. One last possibility you can try, though I've never had one so I can't vouch for it working or not, is a Hector's goby its said to eat hair algae so might not be effective against bryopsis but is at least a small fish for your 25 and pretty cool looking too.
     
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  10. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    Well I will definitely look into these things. I'm at my wits end and am willing to try anything. I found it hard to believe that nothing will eat it. There is a natural predator for every type of nuisance algae in saltwater but not bryopsis? Maybe I've been a little too trusting. Thanks for your help. Do you think that because this tank is by a window has anything to do with it? Is bryopsis photosynthetic? My 55 has never had a bout with bryopsis or HA but I'm lucky cause I get to deal with the occasional dino and stubborn patches of cyano (yay me!! ).
     
  11. shornik

    shornik Well-Known Member

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    I think all algae is photosynthetic so maybe the light from the window is contributing to its hardiness. Good luck and let us know if you find anything that eats that stuff :mad:
     
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  12. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  13. kimba

    kimba Well-Known Member

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    I was a little nervous so first I dipped ALL coral in 50% peroxide 50% tank water. Waited to see if coral were okay. About 2 days later I did it again in the 50/50. I was also tweezing it off as well. I could see a difference and that's when I got a little more confident and started dipping a toothbrush in 100% peroxide and scrubbing (not the coral, but the rock around the corwl). Had I thought of that first I would have done that over the dip. I found the dip killed brisstle worms (which I like).

    It has not come back. I also cheated a little and bought a whole new tank. ;) I think I got it in the first place from old tank equipment (bad ighting, bad water flow etc.) and truthfully inconsistant wc. By changing all of those factors I don't think it will come back.

    good luck on your tank.
     
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  14. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    That could be from how mine was introduced as well. That's good to know about the 100%. I did dip a coral in 100% peroxide because I didn't realize it wasn't diluted, I thought my friend diluted it and he thought I did it, it ended up dying. I think it was too much for the coral, obviously. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
     
  15. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    I have a question if you don't mind. I'm thinking of picking up a tuxedo urchin today. Did what research I could about their compatibility with Harlequins. Urchins have tube feet. Do you know if this would pose a problem? My shrimp are spoiled & are constantly fed chocolate chips. This tank was designed specifically for the Harleys, so their lives are of the utmost importance to me. Thanks in advance.
     
  16. shornik

    shornik Well-Known Member

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    I found this on another site: "The Harlequin Shrimp features a beige to white body with blue and/or red spots outlined in blue or black. This Shrimp lives on a diet primarily of Starfish with the occasional Sea Urchin" so I guess its like getting an iffy "reef safe" fish like a dwarf angel. It probably varies from tank to tank. If the urchin is just for eating the algae and after that they harlequins want a little variety in their diet I guess that might be alright. I hope this helps, but hopefully someone on this thread or another will have better information.
     
  17. lisawolk

    lisawolk Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense. Kind of a Crap shot. Thanks for the response tho. I might look into one of the other things mentioned.
     
  18. kimba

    kimba Well-Known Member

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    My information comes from the owner and an employee who both have said nothing touches it. Using mag (Kent tech M only) is the only thing that works. Also from searching in forums, concenses says the same, only manual removal. Searching the internet and articles. Also from asking for advice in just about all my fish groups on Facebook. Have heard of some success with peroxide which I did. Pulled everything out, toothbrush and 50/50 dip but it ended up coming back. So much so that it got on a couple frag plugs and smothered them out. I'm just about ready to throw out my rocks (Tonga) or take the tank down completely. It houses 2 Harlequins, a Wyoming white clown (the mate jumped out), a watermelon nem, coral (various types) and a peppermint shrimp. Not a lot of snails/crabs because they died off with the high magnesium concentration. It's only a 25 gallon so getting a fish that "just might eat it" is risky. As for my 55, I have an emerald crab who does not touch my bubble algae, and my peppermint shrimp won't touch the occasional aiptasia. Since putting the emerald in I lost both of my feather dusters so he is eating something!! To sum that up, what "should" work for herbivores getting rid of the stuff..... Doesn't work for me. I am that group that it just doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

    My briopsis got so bad that I did take out 3 pieces of my LR, anything that didn't have coral on it. I figured the less algae the easier to get rid of. It did make it easier.

    It is so overwhelming and every time I looked at my tank I felt guilty I let it get so bad. I had tried in the past to get rid of it but it came back. Then I felt overwhelmed AND defeated.

    I was about to donate my tank to a pet store but my husband suggested I get a new tank. With that idea, I went into this a second time not feeling defeated, but feeling excited.

    the problem isn't JUST about getting rid of it, but also why it's there. You have to fix that problem as well, or it will keep comming back. With me it was old lights, low water flow, not doing water changes. I basically gave up on my tank.

    But I finally did it. Keep at it and don't give up. It is doable! My tank is doing great. My corals look better and are opening up and getting their color back.

    You can do it!
     
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  19. kimba

    kimba Well-Known Member

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    An updated photo. If you look at my very top piece of tonga branch I have some yellow polyps. In my last picture the algae looks like "peach fuzz" It is now totally gone. I can't believe it. My toadstools are getting green again and my GSP are looking great. 20151127_104133.jpg
     
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  20. kimba

    kimba Well-Known Member

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    20151111_135519.jpg 20151113_100022.jpg 20151118_155259.jpg 20151121_122239.jpg 20151127_104133.jpg

    This is the progress of my tank in less than 2 weeks
     
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