Scratching my head???

[czoolander]

Just also a question for the moderator . If only my posts are removed for insulting yet insults towards me are tolerated can you answer why ?

Am I not able to defend myself or just take abuse and not give any back ?

Seems like this policy should be removed or called fairly down the line for all parties

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Yeah sorry I should have mentioned that earlier but again its hard to detail everying I have done to my reef over 2.5 years. I was dosing calcium and mag without testing equipment for both early on . Then I bought digital tester for calcium but hanna only recently came out with the magnesium test so I just bought one last week. My lfs before that would test my magnesium every 1-3 months

My other corals are doing very well zoanthids, leathers. mushrooms .

ICP test is on my list for sure . you mention pollutants. I have mentioned on this site before and wondered myself . so in storage room behind the wall where my tank is I keep my cat litter box and I wonder if this is playing a factor? its roughly 12 feet away but behind a door.

Stock list I listed above.

equipment is pretty bare bones and standard
I run a GFO reactor and a Skimmer in my sump that is about it

OK, so if your magnesium and calcium are that high as a result of overdosing, that could be throwing things off and making your hard corals unhappy. Per my understanding, the high calcium shouldn't be causing that effect, but high magnesium could upset some things. Doing some water changes will help bring things back into correct ranges.

I wouldn't think the cat litter would have any effect since it's behind a door, but if it's concerning you, moving it would at least give some peace of mind and eliminate a cause for concern. However, I really don't think that's an issue.

Just also a question for the moderator . If only my posts are removed for insulting yet insults towards me are tolerated can you answer why ?

Am I not able to defend myself or just take abuse and not give any back ?

Seems like this policy should be removed or called fairly down the line for all parties

I've actually removed posts by multiple members and edited a few others. I'm debating trying to go back and clean up this thread of all the back and forth. However, if we can all move forward and keep things civil, that will ensure this conversation is much more productive going forward. :-)

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Also, I think an ICP will help, but it may take some time to get those results.

I would recommend as others have to check the calibration of the refractometer with calibration fluid. It's cheap and easy to do. However, an alternative would be to get those magnesium and calcium test results verified.

I don't think anyone has asked what is being used to maintain alk. I assume it's a store bought alk supplement or sodium bicarbonate or soda ash and not kalkwasser?

This is also a good question. What's being used to maintain alkalinity?

 

[czoolander]

I don't think anyone has asked what is being used to maintain alk. I assume it's a store bought alk supplement or sodium bicarbonate or soda ash and not kalkwasser?

I don't dose often for alk . I lose about .1 DKH every 3-4 days its minimal

 

[czoolander]

OK, so if your magnesium and calcium are that high as a result of overdosing, that could be throwing things off and making your hard corals unhappy. Per my understanding, the high calcium shouldn't be causing that effect, but high magnesium could upset some things. Doing some water changes will help bring things back into correct ranges.

I wouldn't think the cat litter would have any effect since it's behind a door, but if it's concerning you, moving it would at least give some peace of mind and eliminate a cause for concern. However, I really don't think that's an issue.


I've actually removed posts by multiple members and edited a few others. I'm debating trying to go back and clean up this thread of all the back and forth. However, if we can all move forward and keep things civil, that will ensure this conversation is much more productive going forward. :)

Im on board.

Im not a jerk and I do not start insulting anyone but I will defend myself everyday all day and have no problems giving it back as I am sure you have read

I will be civil going forward but this does not mean I will be a wet towel and lie down haha

Thanks for your advice . I will do some water changes and try to lower my Cal and Mag and moniter my dosing closer going forward .

 

[czoolander]

Also, I think an ICP will help, but it may take some time to get those results.

I would recommend as others have to check the calibration of the refractometer with calibration fluid. It's cheap and easy to do. However, an alternative would be to get those magnesium and calcium test results verified.

This is also a good question. What's being used to maintain alkalinity?

So for a year I maintained my alk with weekly bi weekly water changes my consumption was minimal

Then I dosed with baking soda once when I measured at 7.4 and I got a recipe off google and it said to use tablespoons . it seemed like a lot of baking soda at the time but I followed the reciped and my alk went from 7.4 to 12 .

UGGGGH

water changes and days later it was back where I wanted it at 8.5 . slowly lowered again to around 8.1 so I said ok no tablespoons I will use teaspoons as another recipe called for and I measured everything carefully and even did 75% of the recomeneded dose. again it spike from 8.1 to 10 .

NOT HAPPY .....

Water changes and my alk back to 8.5 I purchased a red sea ALK buffer and ever since my alk stays between 8.2 and 8.7 . I aim for around 8.5 but my buddy is telling me to aim for 8.0 or even 7.0 I am undecided and still trying to maintain 8.5

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Im on board.

Im not a jerk and I do not start insulting anyone but I will defend myself everyday all day and have no problems giving it back as I am sure you have read

I will be civil going forward but this does not mean I will be a wet towel and lie down haha

Thanks for your advice . I will do some water changes and try to lower my Cal and Mag and moniter my dosing closer going forward .

Sounds like a good plan of action. I do recommend still getting the ICP done if things don't improve as you're expecting. It honestly wouldn't be a bad idea anyway just to get a feel for what's going on with parameters we can't really measure for with hobby test kits.



On the issues with conflict, it will be helpful for everyone if we keep things civil. Remember, giving it back, only serves to escalate a situation, and what we're hoping to do is deescalate these issues. If someone says something insulting, please reach out to a staff member or (for faster response) report things that are out of line. We want everyone to have an enjoyable experience here. Btw, that's advice I hope we'll all keep in mind. I can't tell you how many times, I've found it helpful to walk away instead of responding to something heated. After all, maybe the other person is dealing with a personal issue I'm unaware of.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

So for a year I maintained my alk with weekly bi weekly water changes my consumption was minimal

Then I dosed with baking soda once when I measured at 7.4 and I got a recipe off google and it said to use tablespoons . it seemed like a lot of baking soda at the time but I followed the reciped and my alk went from 7.4 to 12 .

UGGGGH

water changes and days later it was back where I wanted it at 8.5 . slowly lowered again to around 8.1 so I said ok no tablespoons I will use teaspoons as another recipe called for and I measured everything carefully and even did 75% of the recomeneded dose. again it spike from 8.1 to 10 .

NOT HAPPY .....

Water changes and my alk back to 8.5 I purchased a red sea ALK buffer and ever since my alk stays between 8.2 and 8.7 . I aim for around 8.5 but my buddy is telling me to aim for 8.0 or even 7.0 I am undecided and still trying to maintain 8.5

8.5 is a good target IMO. Stability is the main thing. As I'm sure you know, swings in parameters are what can really upset a tank.

 

[czoolander]

8.5 is a good target IMO. Stability is the main thing. As I'm sure you know, swings in parameters are what can really upset a tank.

Intentions were to avoid the swings that is why I was ticked at the recipes online for raising ALk with baking soda. Anyway that is kinda mickey mouse and I bought that red sea product I dose with that going forward

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Its hard to say every detail in a reef tank there is so much going on as I am sure you aware.

Here is further info on my lighting.

I have my blues at 70% and whites at 30 %

I run 10 hours with 1.5 hour ramp up and 1.5 hour ramp down so 7 hours at 70% and I have about 1.5 hours of cloud cover in the middle of the day .

The corals I have lost are acans. sps digi fire ( ignorant me does not know the proper name ) and a teal birdsnest again probably not the right now

Do you have access to a PAR meter. The corals you mentioned tend to be higher light corals. If you are keeping LPS and soft corals without a problem, then you may be starving the others by not providing enough light.

My suggestion would be to borrow a PAR meter and map out you tank during peak light. The corals you are losing should be in at least 200 PAR, but can handle much higher. I would shoot for around 300 PAR for anyplace you plan to keep SPS corals.

 

[Mark Bradley]

When comparing the measurements you mention I was advised to keep my calcium nearer the 450 (magnesium 3 x the calcium) and alkalinity at 7 - 7.5.
I do 15% weekly water changes. My nitrates are between 15 and 20 - phosphates are kept as close as I can to 0.03 using a reactor (and rowaphos). I dose calcium and KH. All in all my tank grows well - so much so I swap frags at my LFS for credit. I don’t, however, have SPS.

 

[czoolander]

Sounds like a good plan of action. I do recommend still getting the ICP done if things don't improve as you're expecting. It honestly wouldn't be a bad idea anyway just to get a feel for what's going on with parameters we can't really measure for with hobby test kits.



On the issues with conflict, it will be helpful for everyone if we keep things civil. Remember, giving it back, only serves to escalate a situation, and what we're hoping to do is deescalate these issues. If someone says something insulting, please reach out to a staff member or (for faster response) report things that are out of line. We want everyone to have an enjoyable experience here. Btw, that's advice I hope we'll all keep in mind. I can't tell you how many times, I've found it helpful to walk away instead of responding to something heated. After all, maybe the other person is dealing with a personal issue I'm unaware of.

I can do what you ask for sure and if there is insults they wont be coming from me first.

However I cant do a reporting or reach out to staff member . I don't rat or tattle . I have always defended myself and always will I don't believe in de-escalation I believe in eye for an eye.

But yes I see your point and just letting you know my perspective .

Do you have access to a PAR meter. The corals you mentioned tend to be higher light corals. If you are keeping LPS and soft corals without a problem, then you may be starving the others by not providing enough light.

My suggestion would be to borrow a PAR meter and map out you tank during peak light. The corals you are losing should be in at least 200 PAR, but can handle much higher. I would shoot for around 300 PAR for anyplace you plan to keep SPS corals.

Normally I would think that was the case for sure as I have not kept sps successfully at all or even really attempted I have read they need high light high flow or medium light and flow.

However when I had both frags in my sand bed they looked good and same as in the pictures for 1 week. Then I moved and glued them up on the rocks not to the top but about 60% from the top of the tank and they just declined / died from there . So im not sure its a lighting issue

I mean it still could be lighting but why would they look better in the sand then higher up in more flow more light.

I haven't tested par . but I know I have a red sea tank and they are red sea lights and I have seen par readings from both red sea and brs has tested par as well with those lights . Should be the same ? unless mine are putting out super weak lighting or super strong lighting ??? possible I guess

 

[czoolander]

When comparing the measurements you mention I was advised to keep my calcium nearer the 450 (magnesium 3 x the calcium) and alkalinity at 7 - 7.5.
I do 15% weekly water changes. My nitrates are between 15 and 20 - phosphates are kept as close as I can to 0.03 using a reactor (and rowaphos). I dose calcium and KH. All in all my tank grows well - so much so I swap frags at my LFS for credit. I don’t, however, have SPS.

Yeah your doing something right those mushrooms look puffy and happy.

I am planning on doing some water changes to lower my calcium and magnesium.

I could try lowering alk to 7.5 as that is what a local reefer told me he said he keeps at 7.0 .

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Normally I would think that was the case for sure as I have not kept sps successfully at all or even really attempted I have read they need high light high flow or medium light and flow.

However when I had both frags in my sand bed they looked good and same as in the pictures for 1 week. Then I moved and glued them up on the rocks not to the top but about 60% from the top of the tank and they just declined / died from there . So im not sure its a lighting issue

I mean it still could be lighting but why would they look better in the sand then higher up in more flow more light.

I haven't tested par . but I know I have a red sea tank and they are red sea lights and I have seen par readings from both red sea and brs has tested par as well with those lights . Should be the same ? unless mine are putting out super weak lighting or super strong lighting ??? possible I guess

It takes time for low light to effect coral. Sometimes weeks, sometimes months. depending on where they were in the sand bed, the light may have actually been higher there than where you put them. In my tank, there are places on the sand bed close to the glass that have higher PAR than half way up my tank.

I would always recommend measuring PAR for yourself rather than some of the ideal numbers posted from manufacturers. Unless you are running the exact same setup that was used for the test, your numbers could be very different. Based on the RedSea website, 50% from the top of the tank only gives you about 250 PAR. Those numbers are based on running the lights at maximum intensity. With your reduced intensity, it's not impossible that you had your corals closer to 150 PAR.

 

[czoolander]

It takes time for low light to effect coral. Sometimes weeks, sometimes months. depending on where they were in the sand bed, the light may have actually been higher there than where you put them. In my tank, there are places on the sand bed close to the glass that have higher PAR than half way up my tank.

I would always recommend measuring PAR for yourself rather than some of the ideal numbers posted from manufacturers. Unless you are running the exact same setup that was used for the test, your numbers could be very different. Based on the RedSea website, 50% from the top of the tank only gives you about 250 PAR. Those numbers are based on running the lights at maximum intensity. With your reduced intensity, it's not impossible that you had your corals closer to 150 PAR.

Yeah lighting and flow is defintley something I have not mastered haha . this is why I bought the red sea tank and red sea lights I literally wanted something I did not have to tinker with just set it up and turn it on and have lighting that corals need at all levels. Turns out its not really the case . I still see people running different intensities and programs and not really hearing anyone just using the " red sea" programs as is .

Kinda disappointing to be honest was hoping I could just run that program and get what I needed

 

[Dburr1014]

So what I'm reading is you have had some swings in alk. That, as you know is not good to be going up and down. It can cause havoc to the tank.
Also, sps can look great when first acquired. Sometimes they all brown out come back sometimes they just died for no reason.
Can I ask how you acclimated them to your Tank?
When I have been doing for years now, is a quick dip Coral solution big tank water and just put them in the tank. This means no drip acclimation only a temp acclimation. My death rate went way down. I mean to like zero. This could be cuz my tank matured more also, but I think the coral stresses more so why prolong putting it in.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

.

 

[czoolander]

So what I'm reading is you have had some swings in alk. That, as you know is not good to be going up and down. It can cause havoc to the tank.
Also, sps can look great when first acquired. Sometimes they all brown out come back sometimes they just died for no reason.
Can I ask how you acclimated them to your Tank?
When I have been doing for years now, is a quick dip Coral solution big tank water and just put them in the tank. This means no drip acclimation only a temp acclimation. My death rate went way down. I mean to like zero. This could be cuz my tank matured more also, but I think the coral stresses more so why prolong putting it in.

I followed the vendor instructions which I believe was tempature acclimate no dip and put in tank . I can’t remember if I dipped now though. Anyway I did do exactly as the online vendor told me . Probably the coral beauty

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So for a year I maintained my alk with weekly bi weekly water changes my consumption was minimal

Then I dosed with baking soda once when I measured at 7.4 and I got a recipe off google and it said to use tablespoons . it seemed like a lot of baking soda at the time but I followed the reciped and my alk went from 7.4 to 12 .

Baking soda is a perfectly good way to raise alk, but its better to use a calculator that gives exact and accurate amounts for many specific products than relying on someone else's math of unknown accuracy:

This is a good example:
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chem_calc3.html
FWIW, 1 level tablespoon (3 teaspoons) of dry baking soda will boost 100 gallons of water by 1.27 dKH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dont know man everyone uses water . but feel free to use calibration fluid if you want :)

A: To calibrate a saltwater refractometer, you should first fill it with distilled water. You then need to set the desired range for your refractometer on the side of the device. Once this is done, you can start measuring salinity levels in your sample. How do you use a refractometer in a marine tank?

I know you likely read my comments to this in your other thread and this comment is older, but for others reading this comment here for the first time, it is not accurate to calibrate all reef aquarium hobby refractometers with RO/DI and then hope to use them to accurately measure seawater salinity.

Only true seawater refractometers should be calibrated with RO/DI, and even then you are assuming the refractometer is correctly made. Unless the refractometer claims to be a true seawater refractometer, it almost certainly is not, but rather is a brine refractometer.

OTOH, it is never incorrect to calibrate and refractometer with a 35 ppt seawater standard (assuming it is properly made) and then use it to read 35 ppt seawater accurately.