Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[USMA36]

Balling Part C should not ever be thought of as a trace element supplement. It adds ions ONLY to prevent the required salinity corrections due to the added sodium and chloride from dropping everything else.

Thank you. Can it be dosed one time daily or weekly?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you. Can it be dosed one time daily or weekly?

The Balling Part C? Once a day is plenty. Once a week is likely also ok in most tanks.

 

[Cjeippert]

The Balling Part C? Once a day is plenty. Once a week is likely also ok in most tanks.

Am I correct in thinking I do not need to use balling part c if I am already using your 2 part and a third part being mag chloride and mag sulfate?

 

[Miami Reef]

Am I correct in thinking I do not need to use balling part c if I am already using your 2 part and a third part being mag chloride and mag sulfate?

Balling part C is optional.

For the 3rd part you can either use the magnesium mix or balling part C. The latter is more desirable because it keeps more ions than just chloride and sulfate in balance.

Over a longer period of time the salinity will rise because of the 2 part, when you lower the salinity, you bring the sodium, chloride, and sulfate down to their range, but the minor elements (potassium etc) will be lowered more and more below the desirable level.

This negative effect can be decreased with water changes, which bring the balance back.

Just note that this issue is more of a long term one, you probably won’t see any effect until about over a year unless your tank is a high demand tank with 2 part.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Am I correct in thinking I do not need to use balling part c if I am already using your 2 part and a third part being mag chloride and mag sulfate?

Correct, do not use both my Part 3 and Balling Part C. Think of Balling Part C as a more complete but more expensive version of my Part 3.

 

[badchev]

I use Tropic Marin “All-for-Reef” and have been using Kalk at night to boost ph but have been fighting low evap and end up with lower salinity and having to drain excess water out of the sump. Can I substitute the Kalk for Sodium hydroxide, or will I need to add more calcium? When using kalk my calcium levels stayed at 390-400. My only frustration is the All-for-reef is a alk booster, so when using kalk, my alk was high 11’s 12’s… maybe I should just switch to Randy’s 3 part?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I use Tropic Marin “All-for-Reef” and have been using Kalk at night to boost ph but have been fighting low evap and end up with lower salinity and having to drain excess water out of the sump. Can I substitute the Kalk for Sodium hydroxide, or will I need to add more calcium? When using kalk my calcium levels stayed at 390-400. My only frustration is the All-for-reef is a alk booster, so when using kalk, my alk was high 11’s 12’s… maybe I should just switch to Randy’s 3 part?

You certainly can dose both kalkwasser with All for Reef, or this 2/3 part and all for reef.

If pH is a primary concern, and you want to boost pH by dosing, I’d stop the all for reef and try an ordinary sodium carbonate two part, and if that fails to be enough, try the sodium hydroxide two/three part.

Kalkwasser is not a substitute for the sodium hydroxide. It’s a substitute for the entire set of parts of a 2 or three part system.

 

[badchev]

OK, I'm going to switch to ordinary sodium carbonate 2 part. Is the BRS kit with soda ash, calcium, and magnesium the right stuff, so if I need more ph boost, I can add the sodium hydroxide to it?

 

[Asthix]

Correct, do not use both my Part 3 and Balling Part C. Think of Balling Part C as a more complete but more expensive version of my Part 3.

Would it then be possible to make this Part C with a DIY recipe?
It looks to be Magnesium+ Potassium supplement

What happened in my case with high consumption (3 dKH per day) is that my potassium was really low, about 250, which I brought up slowly but now I have to do is dosing Part 3 + Potassium

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would it then be possible to make this Part C with a DIY recipe?
It looks to be Magnesium+ Potassium supplement

What happened in my case with high consumption (3 dKH per day) is that my potassium was really low, about 250, which I brought up slowly but now I have to do is dosing Part 3 + Potassium

Balling Part C is just salt mix with no added sodium chloride. It would be equally hard to make a proper diy of it as to make your own salt mix: doable but a lot of trouble.

 

[Asthix]

Balling Part C is just salt mix with no added sodium chloride. It would be equally hard to make a proper diy of it as to make your own salt mix: doable but a lot of trouble.

Wasn't seeing it this way, thanks for clarifying that.

Do YOU think it's worth the price using it compared to using your part 3, when I do about 10-15% water change per week?
My ICP fwiw, always come back okay except micro element being really low or even undetectable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Wasn't seeing it this way, thanks for clarifying that.

Do YOU think it's worth the price using it compared to using your part 3, when I do about 10-15% water change per week?
My ICP fwiw, always come back okay except micro element being really low or even undetectable.

I'm not sure what the price is (and, of course, it varies proportionally to the daily alk and calcium demand, but if I were to use a DIY two part and saving money wasn't the highest priority, I'd probably use it.

Water changes do reduce the benefit/need for it.

 

[wmb0003]

The cost is not so bad if I am calculating correctly.
1kg is ~$18
Using the BRS recommendation of 7.5 scoops per gallon of water.
That 1kg should make right under 6 gallons of the mixture.
Based on 130ml of alk/cal dosed daily, so 130ml of Part C or 3640ml(~1 gallon) a month.
So 2 boxes a year or $36/year.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The cost is not so bad if I am calculating correctly.
1kg is ~$18
Using the BRS recommendation of 7.5 scoops per gallon of water.
That 1kg should make right under 6 gallons of the mixture.
Based on 130ml of alk/cal dosed daily, so 130ml of Part C or 3640ml(~1 gallon) a month.
So 2 boxes a year or $36/year.

I'd pay that. :)

 

[Asthix]

The cost is not so bad if I am calculating correctly.
1kg is ~$18
Using the BRS recommendation of 7.5 scoops per gallon of water.
That 1kg should make right under 6 gallons of the mixture.
Based on 130ml of alk/cal dosed daily, so 130ml of Part C or 3640ml(~1 gallon) a month.
So 2 boxes a year or $36/year.

Thanks for the calculation, didn't took the time before complaining :(

As I use 3 times more than that of balling, it would then be 100+ € for me just for this part C.

Should I expect a big difference, much more than doing more water change with this 100€?

My pH start to climb a bit higher than what I'd like it too!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the calculation, didn't took the time before complaining :(

As I use 3 times more than that of balling, it would then be 100+ € for me just for this part C.

Should I expect a big difference, much more than doing more water change with this 100€?

My pH start to climb a bit higher than what I'd like it too!

Of course the answer depends on the size and frequency of of water changes.

Craig Bingman addressed this question decades ago. Therer are many graphs to look at to see the effects, but here is his conclusion:

"
These simulations show that at low calcification rates and with what many people would consider to be substantial water exchange rates, calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate can be used to meet the necessary calcium carbonate demand in a mixed aquarium containing a few hard corals, some live rock and live sand, without totally wrecking the composition of the water in the tank. The results of the simulations are laid out in graphical format for everyone to observe and to allow them to come to their own conclusions on this issue.
Fundamentally, my opinions on what constitute the optimal methods of maintaining calcium and alkalinity in reef aquaria are unchanged. I continue to prefer to use “balanced” calcium and alkalinity solutions, like limewater, calcium carbonate/CO2 reactors, or for smaller systems, the balanced ionic two-part solutions."

Simulating the Effect of Calcium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate Additions on Reef Systems
http://web.archive.org/web/20010606...twork.com/fish2/aqfm/1998/dec/bio/default.asp
Additional Simulations: The Combined Effect Of Calcium Chloride/Sodium Bicarbonate Additions And Water Exchanges
http://web.archive.org/web/20010210...twork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/feb/bio/default.asp

 

[badchev]

I was thinking more about PH and the extra Hydrogen that builds up in the water, the use of sodium carbonates, bi-carbonate and hydroxides to bond them up to raise PH. Has anyone thought to remove the Hydrogen from the water with electrolysis? Less hydrogen higher ph? Just curious about overall oxygen left in the water for fish. DC current should not be a problem, the electrodes would have to be 309 stainless steal or even gold or platinum the gas emitted would be hydrogen from the negative terminal and chloride from the + terminal. Just curious if it has been tried.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Electrolysis of seawater makes toxic compounds such as chlorine. Don’t forget something needs to happen at the other electrode.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589299120300537

 

[Gudhjem]

Thanks Randy for all your help with this and all the time you spend helping everyone here.

I've been using your DIY recipes for 11 years -- first the 3-part, then the 2-part with magnesium chloride and sodium sulfate. I've also been using saturated kalkwasser for top off.

I've wondered if my tanks might have some ionic imbalance, and an ICP test confirmed that some were a bit low, potassium and strontium in particular. So I'm going to start using TM Balling Part C (which means I'll go back to your 3-part, but not use the third magnesium part). In determining dosage, I need to consider not only how much Alkalinity (or calcium) I'm dosing, but also what I'm adding in as kalkwasser, correct? Assuming yes, any suggestions for how to calculate this based on how much saturated kalkwasser I add in my top-off?

Thanks.