Is there plenty of circulation on the surface of the water?
Seneye Cycling False or correct results?
- Thread starter SC017
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PS - I just wanted to make something clear that I said previously - 1. I think your tank is ok from a cycle standpoint. 2. I'm glad that you found the potential error in the way your Seneye was set up. 3. I'm sure its impossible to buy confirmatory test kits in your time zone on a Sunday - so I would carefully watch the fish in the meantime. 4. Tomorrow I would get a pH, Alkalinity, Ca Nitrate test (just simple ones) and check those parameters. If you're wanting to help verify your ammonia status (which like I said is probably ok) - a seachem alert badge will help to at least make sure there is no ammonia problem (a free ammonia problem) - and you could also get a liquid ammonia test.
Sorry for the bickering - I just wanted to make sure you were seeing the trees in the forest so to speak.
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PS - sorry to interject - to @SC017 - the reason for this is - the main reason for a low pH - is Carbon dioxide in the air. For example - if all of our windows are open - the pH in my tank is probably 8.1. When we turn on the air conditioner on - (and the windows are closed - and people are breathing out CO2) the pH can drop to 7.8 - or lower (especially at night) - on a day to day basis. So - if you do indeed have a lower pH - one of the best ways to increase it slowly - and naturally - is to open a window near the tank - even slightly - and make sure that your circulation especially at the surface is adequate.
The reason I mentioned getting an alkalinity test - is that alkalinity functions to buffer the tank pH (i.e. keep it stable) - if that level (for some reason) is low, your pH can fall from that.
Note - this was more for general education - not something to rush to worry about. First thing is verifying the actual pH of the tank. Then going from there. Hope everything goes ok tonight - and please update tomorrow!!
SC017
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Yes, I have a wavemaker directed at the surface.
I had the flow higher but decreased it a bit out of concern for the Cardinals lofty way of swimming.
I don't blame you for it.
I'm just frustrated that this only decided to happen after I had made the purchases.
SC017
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What recommendations do you have for cheap test kits?
I'm fairly confident from freshwater experience for fish, but have absolutely no clue how to expect something like shrimp to behave. I originally was planning on adding those later but the LFS talked me out of buying conches for them.
I'm fairly confident from freshwater experience for fish, but have absolutely no clue how to expect something like shrimp to behave. I originally was planning on adding those later but the LFS talked me out of buying conches for them.
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Though some will say 'no' - I use API - and have for years. The KEY is following the directions exactly. If they say 'shake for 10 seconds' - dont shake for 20 seconds, etc. etc. They are not as 'precise' as a Seneye - i.e. the graduations of alkalinity are 1 dKH rather than. .01 DKH. But they are good enough to show you what you need to know. There is (at least in the states) - an API Master Reef Kit - which bundles many of the tests into one carrying case - and is relatively inexpensive. It includes nitrate - but not ammonia or nitrite OR pH - they need to be bought separately. In addition - it includes Ca, and Phosphate. When you go to your LFS - and ask for the test kits, make sure whatever brand - for the ammonia, nitrite, pH - that they can be used for Marine tanks (as compared to fresh)
Failing to soak it will give you incorrect readings across most if not all params within first 24hrs.
A good 48 hr soak is what id reccomend in the future.
That plus the particular bottle bac is all likely playing into abnormalities your seeing. I cant be 100% on that without another ph kit to confirm. But I can confidently say based on the exact same abnormalities I've seen using same bottle bac. If I was a betting man. Id 100% go all in thats what im observing again because I've seen same thing with that bottle bac too many times now.
We likely wouldn't even be having this conversation if you could confirm ph results
Hey buddy. Sorry you had to experience the last cpl pages at all. There seems to be alot of debate amongst some of my peers here and this seems to be one of the hottest topics.
Hopefully to set you at ease. I hope I was clear enough. I own a seneye. Have done enough real work with seneye, ammonia and your particular bottle bac to say conclusively that based on what you have observed. Especially taking into account you didnt soak slide correctly and the amount of time that has elapsed.
I dont think you have much to worry about at all. I'm 100% confident saying that. Pretty sure my peers would be as well if they have observed and done the work I've done.
Please do report back with tracking of ammonia blips after first few feedings.
I would work on getting that salinity down closer to 1.025. Not much room left for top off error sitting at that high level of salinity.
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I think he's doing a pretty good job with what he's doing. The rest is somewhat OFF TOPIC for @sc107 = ignore it if you want. I tend to believe that people believe 'computerized' - i.e. a digital result - more than a titration test (like API). It looks official, and its there in black and white its not us squinting to determine the color - I think this is a handicap in reefing not a help - especially for new reefers. I think this could be a 'work thread' - to show this. As compared to a successful work thread.Failing to soak it will give you incorrect readings across most if not all params within first 24hrs.
A good 48 hr soak is what id reccomend in the future.
That plus the particular bottle bac is all likely playing into abnormalities your seeing. I cant be 100% on that without another ph kit to confirm. But I can confidently say based on the exact same abnormalities I've seen using same bottle bac. If I was a betting man. Id 100% go all in thats what im observing again because I've seen same thing with that bottle bac too many times now.
We likely wouldn't even be having this conversation if you could confirm ph results
1. If you put 2 cardinals in a bare tank - with a HOB filter - and none of the other stuff - chances are they will do fine. I do not consider this a 'proof' of anything. There is no control
2. If you put 5 large tangs in a bare tank with a HOB filter - and nothing else - all would be dead in a week. (IME)
3. This IMHO - is an example of a failed work thread - and no offense to anyone - its a failure of people to not look at the whole picture - the pH was off. Assumptions were made, or the pH was ignored. But - As @Lasse said - why believe the Seneye at all - if you're going to ignore some of the results
That statement about some of our peers being maybe just a little too smart for the majority of reefers may ring true. Haha realisticly we are all headed to same end result just getting there based on different working knowledge and experiences. We are all coming from same place of helpful conviction. Its interesting to say the least.
I do feel that op is ok. Theres alot of little intricacies and nuances that you learn with seneye. Some things you learn to trust to an extent. Most agree on tracking ammonia trends. It seems to be most consistent across the board.
Almost everything else I dont trust as far as I can throw a color coded kit.
Hi @SC017
I have stayed out from this thread because I did not want to derail it with a total meaningless discussion with a certain person.
However - I´m rather sure that your pH readings from your Seneye is wrong and that you in reality is in the ballpark of 7.8 - 8.2 where you should be in a saltwater tank.
I´m also rather sure that at least the first step in the nitrification process (NH4->NO2) is completed. Do not know anything if you have nitrite or not but if you only started with 2 ppm ammonia - nitrite is of minor concern. It is not as acute toxic as in freshwater - you probably not need to worry about your fish and shrimps. Both these species is rather rough and manage things rather well, However - if it have been my tank - I would take it very careful with the feeding from now and a couple of weeks forward. If you can feed with frozen adult artemia it is best because it is difficult to overfeed (according nitrogen) with frozen natural food. Do not feed with more than 10 - 30 artemia the first days. If you want to have some more tips - please read this article.
You are used of freshwater - it means that you have some experiences of fish in a tank and can observe your animals. Just observe them and you will probably see if something is wrong.
How large is the tank? Do you have a skimmer? If you have that - can you take off the skimmer cup and run it with max aeration (skimmate back in the sump) during the coming days. (for gas exchange - CO2 out - O2 in and also NH3 (ammonia gas) out)
And do not panic
Sincerely Lasse
I have stayed out from this thread because I did not want to derail it with a total meaningless discussion with a certain person.
However - I´m rather sure that your pH readings from your Seneye is wrong and that you in reality is in the ballpark of 7.8 - 8.2 where you should be in a saltwater tank.
I´m also rather sure that at least the first step in the nitrification process (NH4->NO2) is completed. Do not know anything if you have nitrite or not but if you only started with 2 ppm ammonia - nitrite is of minor concern. It is not as acute toxic as in freshwater - you probably not need to worry about your fish and shrimps. Both these species is rather rough and manage things rather well, However - if it have been my tank - I would take it very careful with the feeding from now and a couple of weeks forward. If you can feed with frozen adult artemia it is best because it is difficult to overfeed (according nitrogen) with frozen natural food. Do not feed with more than 10 - 30 artemia the first days. If you want to have some more tips - please read this article.
You are used of freshwater - it means that you have some experiences of fish in a tank and can observe your animals. Just observe them and you will probably see if something is wrong.
How large is the tank? Do you have a skimmer? If you have that - can you take off the skimmer cup and run it with max aeration (skimmate back in the sump) during the coming days. (for gas exchange - CO2 out - O2 in and also NH3 (ammonia gas) out)
And do not panic
Sincerely Lasse
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SC017
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Recently fed fish some frozen food (A mix of brine shrimp, rotifiers and some other stuff, its what they were on at LFS) and both Cardinals and 1 shrimp were interested and ate a good amount of food. I couldn't tell for the other shrimp as it was in a cave and could've easily gotten food through a nook or cranny in it. In freshwater the common theme is "if its eating food, its probably alright", which has helped anxiety in that regard.
Should be fine on overfeeding considering the amount left over, will continue to update for awhile.
Updated charts and image of tank below, only live-rock for filtration. Don't mind the background mess, unpacking from recent house move been slow.
Should be fine on overfeeding considering the amount left over, will continue to update for awhile.
Updated charts and image of tank below, only live-rock for filtration. Don't mind the background mess, unpacking from recent house move been slow.
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One thing I failed to ask thats probably important..Recently fed fish some frozen food (A mix of brine shrimp, rotifiers and some other stuff, its what they were on at LFS) and both Cardinals and 1 shrimp were interested and ate a good amount of food. I couldn't tell for the other shrimp as it was in a cave and could've easily gotten food through a nook or cranny in it. In freshwater the common theme is "if its eating food, its probably alright", which has helped anxiety in that regard.
Should be fine on overfeeding considering the amount left over, will continue to update for awhile.
Updated charts and image of tank below, only live-rock for filtration. Don't mind the background mess, unpacking from recent house move been slow.
Is in your settings, did you check the box from fresh water to marine so seneye knows its in a saltwater tank? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I had to ask because I've never observed PH stuck where its at.
What im looking for specifically is little tiny blips in ammonia. Ive never seen one higher than .006 during first few feeds. Some tanks I've never seen any blips after feeding.
I believe your initial dose of ammonia has you covered now either way.
As @Lasse said responsible feedings from here.
You don't want to create more bioload than your initial dose set your tank up to process.
I have 4 fish in an 80 and keep fat bellies on them all with a cube or 2 of frozen food on the end of chopsticks. Whatever falls to the floor is plenty sufficient for cuc and critters.
SC017
Community Member
Yup, even tried switching from Marine to Saltwater and back. You can tell by the 2 blips on free ammonia and ph.
Not seen any rise in Ammonia from feeding yet, I don't know how long that'll take if I see any at all.
Ok good.
Chances are you may never see any blips in ammonia during feeding because your system is processing it as fast as its produced. Already
Good time to practice responsible feeding like @Lasse said and get in habit of continuing that practice while your tank breaks in for first few weeks.
If you see any blips in ammonia at all it should be during first cpl hours of feeding and back to 0 within first cpl hours after that.
Also. Thought I'd add. Unfortunately I've ruined slides in new tank set ups with your bottle bac. Completely toasted them. Ph never stabilized and had to replace. If I was you I'd soak another slide now that your through bottle bac stage.
Soak for 48hrs and replace. Follow soak directions to the T.
If your PH continues to read low with new properly soaked slide you may have a faulty device that reads PH wrong. Id contact seneye for replacement if new slide continues to read PH wrong.
Still 100% confident your ok with ammonia. Just because ph is off doesn't mean ammonia is off. Ive confirmed that. So don't stress.
Soak for 48hrs and replace. Follow soak directions to the T.
If your PH continues to read low with new properly soaked slide you may have a faulty device that reads PH wrong. Id contact seneye for replacement if new slide continues to read PH wrong.
Still 100% confident your ok with ammonia. Just because ph is off doesn't mean ammonia is off. Ive confirmed that. So don't stress.
Main leftover N as NH4/NH3 is around 1/2 a hour after feeding to around 2 hour after
Sincerely Lasse
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