Sexing Banggai Cardinalfish

[Instigate]

Does anyone have a good photo of a female Banggai's vent? This article has a great photo of a male's vents but the photo of the female is not great.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-to-determine-the-sex-of-banggai-cardinalfish

I'm still trying to figure out if I have two of the same sex or not. They've grown quite a bit in the month or so I've had them and I'm finally able to see their vents. Sorta. One, I'm pretty sure is a male. But "he's" more timid and skittish than the other so he's harder to get a good photo of but to my eye I'm like 90% sure I see two vents. The other one I'm not to sure about. I think it might be a female, there is one vent for sure but then there is a hump but I don't see a vent coming off it. They're due to come out of the copper on Tuesday morning so I'm trying to figure out if I need to sell/trade one or not.

Behaviorally they do seem to tolerate each other fine and tend to hang out but I do see them separate from time to time, but they're just in a 20 gallon long QT right now. Recently I had noticed them acting differently and I don't know if it's them pairing up or starting to become intolerant of each other. The smaller one, suspected male, will start to back up into the larger one then roll and dart quickly towards the larger one. At first I thought it was aggression but after putting the separator in they would both meet at the barrier and hang there together. So I took it back out and they both went to each other immediately and have been swimming together. I'll try to get some video next time I see them doing the backup maneuver. This article describes a pairing process where one is nipping at the other and dancing around it but the only videos I can find of Banggai's pairing up all just show the vibrating on one side of the other fish then vibrating on the other side over and over again.
http://breedersregistry.org/journal...aising-and-breeding-the-banggai-cardinalfish/

Anyone have any input? Say I have two males and they grow out of being juveniles do they just one day full on attack each other? Or is it more of a subtle and increasing aggression?

Photos of my Banggai's vents:

Suspected Male:

Suspected Female:

 

[Claus84]

Does anyone have a good photo of a female Banggai's vent? This article has a great photo of a male's vents but the photo of the female is not great.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-to-determine-the-sex-of-banggai-cardinalfish

I'm still trying to figure out if I have two of the same sex or not. They've grown quite a bit in the month or so I've had them and I'm finally able to see their vents. Sorta. One, I'm pretty sure is a male. But "he's" more timid and skittish than the other so he's harder to get a good photo of but to my eye I'm like 90% sure I see two vents. The other one I'm not to sure about. I think it might be a female, there is one vent for sure but then there is a hump but I don't see a vent coming off it. They're due to come out of the copper on Tuesday morning so I'm trying to figure out if I need to sell/trade one or not.

Behaviorally they do seem to tolerate each other fine and tend to hang out but I do see them separate from time to time, but they're just in a 20 gallon long QT right now. Recently I had noticed them acting differently and I don't know if it's them pairing up or starting to become intolerant of each other. The smaller one, suspected male, will start to back up into the larger one then roll and dart quickly towards the larger one. At first I thought it was aggression but after putting the separator in they would both meet at the barrier and hang there together. So I took it back out and they both went to each other immediately and have been swimming together. I'll try to get some video next time I see them doing the backup maneuver. This article describes a pairing process where one is nipping at the other and dancing around it but the only videos I can find of Banggai's pairing up all just show the vibrating on one side of the other fish then vibrating on the other side over and over again.
http://breedersregistry.org/journal...aising-and-breeding-the-banggai-cardinalfish/

Anyone have any input? Say I have two males and they grow out of being juveniles do they just one day full on attack each other? Or is it more of a subtle and increasing aggression?

Photos of my Banggai's vents:

Suspected Male:

Suspected Female:

To my eyes it looks like they both have two vents in those photos which would make them both male. I bought two tiny juvs hoping for a pair and both of mine turned out to be male, had to take one back to the shop as it relentlessy bullied the other one once they reached a certain size. Never did any physical damage but it got to the point where the victim would just hide above a gyre at the top of the tank so the bully had to go. If you have any doubts I would take one back while they are easy to trap in QT. Lone banggais do fine anyway, in fact my remaining fish is now a bully towards my mandarin and flame angel!

 

[Instigate]

To my eyes it looks like they both have two vents in those photos which would make them both male. I bought two tiny juvs hoping for a pair and both of mine turned out to be male, had to take one back to the shop as it relentlessy bullied the other one once they reached a certain size. Never did any physical damage but it got to the point where the victim would just hide above a gyre at the top of the tank so the bully had to go. If you have any doubts I would take one back while they are easy to trap in QT. Lone banggais do fine anyway, in fact my remaining fish is now a bully towards my mandarin and flame angel!

How long did it take for them to start having issues?

 

[Claus84]

How long did it take for them to start having issues?

Over 6 months, they were tiny when I got them and hung around together all the time. I guess it was once they started to mature that things kicked off. Its very difficult to see the vents when they are small but now mine is big and fat they are fairly obvious

 

[Instigate]

Over 6 months, they were tiny when I got them and hung around together all the time. I guess it was once they started to mature that things kicked off. Its very difficult to see the vents when they are small but now mine is big and fat they are fairly obvious

Thanks for sharing your experience. Anyone else?

 

[Instigate]

#reefsquad Who's the resident Banggai expert on here?

 

[jsker]

@eatbreakfast

 

[Instigate]

Bump

 

[Instigate]

So I went ahead and moved the "suspected female" into the DT. Chose that one because it was the larger, less skittish one. I'm thinking they're probably both male. I guess I'll just trade or sell the known male and try to get a known female at some point.

 

[Instigate]

Still have both fish. The known male is still in my qt system. And I'm still unsure about the suspected female. Thought I'd give it another bump before I give in and take him back to the fish store.

Anyone know of anyone that breeds banggais?

Any advise @eatbreakfast ?

 

[Instigate]

They were both looking quite depressed and just staring at the wall or feeling around the corners trying to find a way out. So I ended up putting the suspected male in my DT with the other one. And thankfully they seem to have paired up. When I put him in the big female came over and they both were acting like little puppies excited to see their master. Doing circles and darting around. I wasn't 100% sure if it was aggressive posturing or what but I thought it just looked like excitement. Then the next few days I closely watched them and they didn't leave each others sides for very long and their moods have completely changed. They are much more active and seem content. Today I observed the shaking on one side then the other mating dance. I don't think I'd be seeing that if they were two males!

 

[NickK]

Sounds like you have a pair if they are doing the shaking dance. It easier to count their vents if you feed them a bunch. Basically feed them mysis until they wont eat any more.

From my experience, the male will usually eat the eggs the first time they mate, just because he is still figuring things out. The female gets dark when she is full of eggs and the male will stop eating when the eggs are in his mouth. That AdvancedAquarist article is a good resource. it pretty much covers everything.

It's better for them to mate in the aquarium you want to raise the babies in, and remove the female before the male releases the babies. It's hard to move the male with the babies in his mouth and him not spit everything out. just my experience.

 

[Instigate]

Sounds like you have a pair if they are doing the shaking dance. It easier to count their vents if you feed them a bunch. Basically feed them mysis until they wont eat any more.

From my experience, the male will usually eat the eggs the first time they mate, just because he is still figuring things out. The female gets dark when she is full of eggs and the male will stop eating when the eggs are in his mouth. That AdvancedAquarist article is a good resource. it pretty much covers everything.

It's better for them to mate in the aquarium you want to raise the babies in, and remove the female before the male releases the babies. It's hard to move the male with the babies in his mouth and him not spit everything out. just my experience.

Thanks for the advice. I'm super excited to try raising the fry!