Should more reefers be using a controller?

[tigre44]

Im tech challenged also i had a problem programing my orphek light. I would like to see a preprogramed system that just covered the basic alk, ca, mg, sal, temp with option to modify parameters.

Wow. That is hardly a basic system. I know of no controllers that measure alkalinity & calcium and apply dosing or other environmental controls.

I’m dreaming I guess I think a bigger problem would be how to add chemicals to adjust without under or over shooting given all the different size tanks we all have

 

[Reef Jedi]

Just throwing this out. I think people would be better off if they learn how to care for a reef tank with out a controller before adding one. Often I see people asking about controllers and they don't even have a tank filled with water yet. To me that's like buying a high performance street rod when you don't even know how to drive yet.

Very well said and I absolutely agree! I reefed for 23 years before I went with an apex. I work a ton of hours and it’s the only way I can see what’s going on when I’m away. When I am home I really enjoy my reef.

 

[gkprevite]

I think controllers are cool. Personally I’m not a big tech guy. I use the controllers that come on the pumps and power heads, I have a single head doser for afr, heck I’m still running annalog timers and t5’s. Keeping things stupid simple has been a strength for me. I’m open to checking one out but i don’t feel the need to with my current setup

 

[Jimbo327]

Way too much money in the glass box to not have a controller.

 

[Koty]

@Katy
After reading your post, I perused some of your threads and read your “meet & greet” post:

“Hello everybody I just started (my tank cycle) about a month ago. I have a 420-lit total aquarium with a sump inc refuge. My aim is a reef tank. New to reefing but not to aquariums (used to grow black water Apistos). I am a scientist in Tel Aviv university Med school and I my field is cell biology. I actually work using fluorescent proteins (from jellyfish). I am fascinated by the challenge of having a modest sample of a reef at home. I also wonder how my strong background will contribute to my experience in reef keeping. this is my tank.”

AND, then I read your signature:

“Academic degree has never prevented anyone from remaining an idiot.“

Not knowing your age, I salute your wisdom and look forward to your future post.

As my signature testifies I had my share of very stupid mistakes from which I hopefully learned. I am 64 years old and since recently started a collaboration with a marine biologist. My reef tank and grandchildren are my points of sanity during the now three years ****storm in my country kidnapped by a bunch corrupt scumbags.
Thank you for the kind words. I feel that I am but a rookie compared to some of the reefing cannons in R2R.
.

 

[Biokabe]

Wow. That is hardly a basic system. I know of no controllers that measure alkalinity & calcium and apply dosing or other environmental controls.

An appropriately kitted Apex can do exactly that. I personally wouldn't recommend it, and not just because of the price tag - the elemental adjustments would rely on the Trident tester, which I personally don't consider reliable enough to actually drive a dosing program from.

But it could be done:

Apex
PM2 Salinity Module (depending on Apex model)
Salinity probe
ATK auto top-off
Trident auto-tester
DOS dosing pump

The Apex gets you PH and temperature monitoring, and heater control. Salinity probe stays on top of your salinity, and the ATO protects against evaporation-driven salinity swings (which is the leading cause of salinity drift). Trident gives you alk, ca and mg levels, and the DOS can be configured to dose according to what the Trident tests to maintain desired parameter levels. In theory, it's exactly what they want.

It's also somewhere around $2,000 to set up, and as I said before I don't think the Trident is reliable enough to drive a dosing program.

 

[Subsea]

As my signature testifies I had my share of very stupid mistakes from which I hopefully learned. I am 64 years old and since recently started a collaboration with a marine biologist. My reef tank and grandchildren are my points of sanity during the now three years ****storm in my country kidnapped by a bunch corrupt scumbags.
Thank you for the kind words. I feel that I am but a rookie compared to some of the reefing cannons in R2R.
.

You are not a rookie by a long shot. Initially, I thought you were a Laissez Faire reefer with your post about no automation. However, after perusing your build thread, I think you may be a techie with all the equipment operating your reef.

“My reef tank and grandchildren are my points of sanity during the now three years ****storm in my country“

I feel your pain. In 1967 as a young airman, I was a crew chief on an AC47 gunship that patrolled the Jordan boarder with Israel during your countries 6 day war.

 

[Koty]

You are not a rookie by a long shot. Initially, I thought you were a Laissez Faire reefer with your post about no automation. However, after perusing your build thread, I think you may be a techie with all the equipment operating your reef.

“My reef tank and grandchildren are my points of sanity during the now three years ****storm in my country“

In 1967 as a young airman, I was a crew chief on an AC47 gunship that patrolled the Jordan boarder with Israel during your countries 6 day war. I feel your pain.

If you inspect my Avatar, you will learn about my kind of service... Anyway, in my time (1980-83), it was a C-130 from which I had to jump.

 

[Subsea]

If you inspect my Avatar, you will learn about my kind of service... Anyway, in my time (1980-83), it was a C-130 from which I had to jump.

Hercules is more powerful than Puff the Magic Dragon. Kudoes for your service to country.

 

[TylerHaworth]

I personally don't see much need for a centralized controller any more, years ago I had more than one Apex related catastrophic failure and just never went back.

I manually check Alk every day, I never check pH in the display, I have never checked dissolved oxygen.

My lights have a controller, my doser has a controller, my heater has a controller, my return pump has a controller, my wavemakers have a controller... In this day and age a standalone just seems a redundant and extra unneeded point of failure.

 

[56longroof]

Im not convinced they are that important. But I'm not tech savy at all.

 

[Aquagen]

I work away. So home for a week gone for a week.
Have run a profilux for about 10 years. Couldn't have a tank with out a controller personally.
But with the advent of smart plugs and smart temp controllers it's far easier to roll your own controller these days with home assistant

 

[Lasse]

More biology / less technology

Schooled in both biology and technology - I will say More biology/more technology, I would not be able to run my system in full biological mode without my technical stormtroopers

Sincerely Lasse

 

[exnisstech]

Way too much money in the glass box to not have a controller.

One could argue it creates a single point of failure which IMO is more of a risk not less. But I don't want to argue we just see things differently.

 

[Jimbo327]

One could argue it creates a single point of failure which IMO is more of a risk not less. But I don't want to argue we just see things differently.

It is simply another tool. One needs to learn its strength/weaknesses and then apply it. I program my Apex as more of a warning system to alert me of potential problems and redundancy layer. Even if it fails, it fails OFF, so even that risk is mitigated. Longevity in the hobby can be assisted with tools that help you when you don’t have the time or availability.

I’m not trying to convince anyone. If you don’t see a need or benefit of a controller, don’t use one. It’s just a tool. If used incorrectly, it is dangerous. If using just basic functions, it no better than a gloried smart strip. In the right hands, it is an invaluable tool. It adds another layer of protection/insurance, makes your life easier, allows you to monitor/adjust remotely, etc.

 

[Jimbo327]

Double post

 

[exnisstech]

Longevity in the hobby can be assisted with tools that help you when you don’t have the time

This is exactly where a controller can be beneficial. If a person doesn't travel it adds more complication than benefit but that's just how I seen them as a non technical person who actually prefers not to embrace tech if given a choice. Its easy for me to run 4 tanks with no controller and even manually dose 3 of them. But I have the luxury of never being away from home more than a few hours at a time.
No right or wrong I just like to see both sides presented to help people researching see different options to help with their decision making.

 

[Subsea]

This is exactly where a controller can be beneficial. If a person doesn't travel it adds more complication than benefit but that's just how I seen them as a non technical person who actually prefers not to embrace tech if given a choice. Its easy for me to run 4 tanks with no controller and even manually dose 3 of them. But I have the luxury of never being away from home more than a few hours at a time.
No right or wrong I just like to see both sides presented to help people researching see different options to help with their decision making.

As an instrumentation engineer and a hands on subsea engineer for well control in deep water drilling, I am technical enough to identify failure points in hostile environments. Because I am retired and seldom leave my farm, I don’t automate. However, as a

It is simply another tool. One needs to learn its strength/weaknesses and then apply it. I program my Apex as more of a warning system to alert me of potential problems and redundancy layer. Even if it fails, it fails OFF, so even that risk is mitigated. Longevity in the hobby can be assisted with tools that help you when you don’t have the time or availability.

I’m not trying to convince anyone. If you don’t see a need or benefit of a controller, don’t use one. It’sG just a tool. If used incorrectly, it is dangerous. If using just basic functions, it no better than a gloried smart strip. In the right hands, it is an invaluable tool. It adds another layer of protection/insurance, makes your life easier, allows you to monitor/adjust remotely, etc.

Kudoes to your post.

To many, who wish to automate don’t understand failure analysis (unintended consequences) or, more importantly, biology. I think @Lasse summed it up best:

More biology / More technology.

Jim,
You summed up my position on automation

“It’s just a tool. If used incorrectly, it is dangerous.”

Couple excessive automation with newbies that have money and use AI to operate a captive reef.

 

[Jimbo327]

I would advise that one plan for times when they can’t be near their tank, not plan on 100% available to be near their tank. That is also part of redundacy. Emergencies happen. I’ve been in the hospital (unplanned) or have to go away for family emergencies, and that’s when highest risk of something going wrong. Murphy's Law.

Yes, part of longevity in reefing is to identify failures and risks, and try to reduce it as much as possible. For instance, I try to mitigate the risk of catastrophic failures that can wipe out my tank. One of those common things is a heater gets stuck on. Happens often, and can wipe a tank in hours as it can start an ammonia chain reaction in a packed tank. First, I run 2 smaller heaters. The heaters have their own built in temp controller, which I set for 81F max. This is plugged into an independent temp controller (ranco/inkbird) that is set at 79F. The Apex controller is set at 82F max and turns heater and lights off automatically if temp gets higher than limit. And I have Apex alerts set to sent me notification on my phone if temps are too high. I also can view the temp chart on my phone to see temp trends and check if something is wrong. This is just 1 layer. I do that for most of the big failure points. I use both the internal equipment controllers and Apex. My Tunzo ATO has built in max-run time shutoff, and high/low sensors, but my Apex also monitors salinity and sends me alerts if too high/low, and I can see the chart to see if it is trending or sudden shift. Apex turns off ATO and skimmer if salinity drops too much. It is a great tool. I just build layers and layers. It's part of reefing to me, my aim is to use technology to help me stay in the game.

It doesn't replace the reefer, I still look and check my tank, but it's insurance for the huge investments in some of our corals/fish. I'm not sure I can financially restart or recover if I had a total tank crash, especially with today's inflated costs.

 

[Subsea]

Schooled in both biology and technology - I will say More biology/more technology, I would not be able to run my system in full biological mode without my technical stormtroopers

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,
You are in a select group that can carry that authority. I salute you for that.

Other things I like about you are your technical background and ability to communicate it: technical stormtroopers, absolutely brilliant. To complete your persona, a sense of humor that is refreshing.

“I am not young enough to know everything, but neither so old that I forgotten everything;)”

Liberté, égalité, fraternité