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Sick Gig Carpet Nem - Updated CURED!

vetteguy53081

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Very possibly a Gig

Was sold as Haddoni from LFS, but I think it is a Gig honestly also.

Unfortunately when he was happiest and properly open in my old tank he was also in this orientation...... so I never got a good photo of his mouth.... lol...

IMG_0088.PNG
Attach files

I found this Not sure if it's clear enough:

IMG_0086.PNG
Its a gig and looks great
 
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vetteguy53081

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Alright. Well I shall be getting on with my Saturday and leaving him to be. But outlook seeming promising.

Things of note.

7:30 Took him out of tank and started Acclimation


1. When first added I had an Airstone in the water all night, he really inflated and seemed to be much happier with the fresh water.

I moved the air stone before I added him and added it to the bucket I was mixing for the W/C.

After 1 1/2 hours of being in the water he expelled and purged for sure, but was now deflated again, foot attached to the bottom, but he looked like a folded pancake again....

I added the airstone on suspicion and he re-inflated, he then got lively enough to move and now he moved himself to the corner of the tank and he's the happiest I've seen him since August 25th lol.

----------------------------------

So far things I've noticed might've be effecting him on top of the Tap Water issue.

1. I had a Protein skimmer on my last tank, no protein skimmer on JBJ 45. The Aeration and Oxygenating of the water might be a big factor for him. When I added air stone back to the tank, he instantly perked up and liked it.

2. White light on last tank was stronger than blue lighting, on the new tank he's really not getting that much light 20 inches in the water, Id have to get a par meter, but even at the brightest hours, I can only imagine it being mid to high 100's at most. and He's 32 inches from the light source, in the last tank he was just 12 inches from the light, which was also how deep he was in the water, when I upgraded to the Hydra 32 he was now 24 inches from the light, but still just 12 inches in water, making him more exposed and I was running the whites WAY higher.



Ordered Ciprofloxacin just in-case I'll need it, but based on the current results I think he'll recover with just some good clean water.

Gotta figure out once he's better though now what to do with him, the way my tank is set up I don't think I can keep him in my 45 just due to lighting and Oxygen issues.

Possibly like Taylor said I could acclimate him, I hope so, we'll see, will be an interesting process.



IMG_0154.jpeg


IMG_0157.jpeg




This was right after I added the airstone again, you can see within like 30 seconds he perked up, he was literally flat, particles in water is just bubbles.

IMG_0142.jpeg
Ther you go !!! See ???!! Looking good my friend !
 
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terraincognita

terraincognita

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Came home at 4:30 and he was like this.
1816CC56-1188-4700-A6C3-E08692BB9DB6.jpeg

No trace of ammonia per sea chem alarm.

FBCC083B-07CB-4BF7-8135-1BEE057D789A.jpeg

I gently lifted his oral disk with a coral feeder tip and he closed his mouth up.

even though water seemed okay did a 100% WC matching 35ppt salinity.

Temp change from 79 to 80

he was closed up then.

added a pump for more flow, but then he was like a pancake against the glass.

so I have an unplugged heater now as a crevice point until I find something better...


EA9B92C7-2377-4000-A064-2E1B83200736.jpeg

looking okay, better than this morning still.

waiting for Cipro from Chewy.

Guess that’s all I can do for now.


image.jpg
 
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terraincognita

terraincognita

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That’s great to see!!!! Those deflated pics looked grim, I've had them look like that with trying to give them good flushing, and have them refuse to reinflate. Yours is good to see!
I suspect yours is a green based on your pics, just really bleached, and you can acclimate it to your tank but it won’t look bright green or yellow using bluer or lower light, but you can acclimate it to live with your tank and sps. Since you’ve had it so long and it hasn’t given up yet, I think you giving it environmental changes will bring it back. I would not medicate yours, based on your pics, just me. But pics everyday will determine, don’t be afraid to medicate, but I don’t think yours needs meds. Change water every 24 hours. Aireate the new water with airstone before use, not the treatment tank. That will be enough. Age new water 24 hours makes a difference. After a couple weeks double the light and you should see great progress. Then once it stabilizes start pulling back to mimic your tank conditions, and give it your tank water to acclimate. After a week of NO DEFLATES, I would cut back on every other day changes, Or every three day changes. Got a piece of stable Seasoned live rock you can use with it? Get it to attach to a piece of rock you can move with it when the time comes.

As mentioned, DO NOT FEED IT. The risk isn’t worth the reward. Wait at least a month or two. It doesn’t need food, I’ve gone over a year of no food, they get HEALTH from water, light, and flow. Growth comes from food, but comes with great risk depending on its ability to process. It’s not worth the risk for long term survival.

Also, my experience, salinity level, and water quality, doesn’t affect them as much as temp.... don’t change water from 80 with new water to 78, better to add 81. I try to make it a degree warmer than old water, or match. They’re found in low tide out of water, and the water comes rushing in. I don’t acclimate them to water quality, only temp, but if it makes you feel better do it, but I’ve done both, and I’m not afraid to plop them into a new water system with no acclimation. Temp I see them react to, so I like to match temp. My salinity is 1.026-1.028, so they can handle, and like, higher salinity, and nature kind of suggests that, at shore line with tides, it’s likely higher. I’ve found flow (and high light) is the biggest affect to their response. If you can keep KH near 9 and calcium near 400 you’ll be golden. I’m horrible at stability, my levels are all over the place, KH as low as 6 and calcium as low as 340, but they let me know when the levels get so low, they refuse to inflate. They really like high levels of both and ppm of 35-36. I aim for KH 9-10 and calcium above 420. Gives me room for human F-up. Temp they’re forgiving too, my tank ranges from 78-88, looks best at 82-83, but I see them get mad when plopped into lower temps. They can acclimate to lower temps, but don’t like the shock.

If you can balance sps at 8-9KH they will do great. Not sure how much of this makes sense. Too much to explain.
All of it made sense thank you so much for that info. I might have a couple questions I’m gonna read it again a few times.

really appreciate it.
 

Taylor t

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High flow to water change that bag is most important. Hang in there. Might not look happy during high flow, but that’s what keeps them going. You might need meds, but keep up with 100% changes everyday. I would resist meds based on what you’ve posted, and provide good water and high flow, and white light.
 
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terraincognita

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But pics everyday will determine, don’t be afraid to medicate, but I don’t think yours needs Meds.
What would you say are signs or things that I should use to determine whether or not to use meds? I will post updates daily but what are some signs you'd say to look for?

Got a piece of stable Seasoned live rock you can use with it? Get it to attach to a piece of rock you can move with it when the time comes.
I do have a big piece I could probably break off a smaller piece for him. I'll do that. Otherwise could I just use some PVC pipe?


As mentioned, DO NOT FEED IT. The risk isn’t worth the reward. Wait at least a month or two. It doesn’t need food, I’ve gone over a year of no food, they get HEALTH from water, light, and flow. Growth comes from food, but comes with great risk depending on its ability to process. It’s not worth the risk for long term survival.
Gotcha don't feed.

Also, my experience, salinity level, and water quality, doesn’t affect them as much as temp.... don’t change water from 80 with new water to 78, better to add 81. I try to make it a degree warmer than old water, or match. They’re found in low tide out of water, and the water comes rushing in. I don’t acclimate them to water quality, only temp, but if it makes you feel better do it, but I’ve done both, and I’m not afraid to plop them into a new water system with no acclimation. Temp I see them react to, so I like to match temp. My salinity is 1.026-1.028, so they can handle, and like, higher salinity, and nature kind of suggests that, at shore line with tides, it’s likely higher. I’ve found flow (and high light) is the biggest affect to their response. If you can keep KH near 9 and calcium near 400 you’ll be golden. I’m horrible at stability, my levels are all over the place, KH as low as 6 and calcium as low as 340, but they let me know when the levels get so low, they refuse to inflate. They really like high levels of both and ppm of 35-36. I aim for KH 9-10 and calcium above 420. Gives me room for human F-up. Temp they’re forgiving too, my tank ranges from 78-88, looks best at 82-83, but I see them get mad when plopped into lower temps. They can acclimate to lower temps, but don’t like the shock.
I'm using Red SEa Coral Pro Salt mix with WC's so since I'm doing them daily apparently it will always be at these values based on me mixing to 35PPT. Per: https://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide


BrandCalcium (ppm)Alkalinity (dkh)Magnesium (ppm)
Brightwell420111380
Coralife560111380
Instant Ocean400111350
Reef Crystals490131440
Kent Marine5408.51200
Oceanic5808.51650
Red Sea4107.71280
Red Sea Coral Pro45012.21340
Seachem Reef540101450
Tropic Marin375101230
Topic Marin Pro Reef4508.51380
Fluval Sea4908.61425





Interesting you talk about the white lighting

I found this, which if the photosynthetic properties of Zoo's match normal plant's then this is a cool chart to know. It's probably elsewhere in reefing in the same fashion but I've yet to see it. They may be different.

Screenshot (89).png

Wonder how that would effect zoo in an Anemone vs Coral .
 

chizerbunoi

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Cover that pump or the nem can be toast. Believe me that they will go in there. Also move the heater to the back chamber so that it can't burn the nem. Better yet, use egg crate on the one end of your tank.

This is why I was pushing really hard for you to quarantine and do daily WC. Your gig is already inflating and deflating regularly. Keep persisting. They are a tough anemone but very rewarding at the end of the day. Mortality rates on them are very high, but since Minh and other reefers identified a treatment protocol, we are now able to keep these prized anemones.
 
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terraincognita

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Cover that pump or the nem can be toast. Believe me that they will go in there. Also move the heater to the back chamber so that it can't burn the nem. Better yet, use egg crate on the one end of your tank.

This is why I was pushing really hard for you to quarantine and do daily WC. Your gig is already inflating and deflating regularly. Keep persisting. They are a tough anemone but very rewarding at the end of the day. Mortality rates on them are very high, but since Minh and other reefers identified a treatment protocol, we are now able to keep these prized anemones.
I have had a BTA Nem get sucked into a power head before so I know :-(.

the heater is off, it was just a foothold for him.

the heater that is on is in the back.

I did take it out this morning anyway though as he’s holding a shape on his own now.

His mouth is still slightly open but even being hit with that power head he’s not a pancake anymore. Or gaping like before.

Still deflated but it looks like stronger muscle control.

Seems slightly more responsive to touch.

his foot hold has always been super super strong since the first day I got him, so it takes a lot to move him. And he doesn’t move much (I don’t think carpets do in general)

But I will probably get a piece of egg crate in there just separating him from the power head. Just in case right, Last thing is after all this to have him die from a mechanical oversight.....

Will do a WC this afternoon since I did it yesterday around 4.

A1BF8EE1-1F0F-4AD0-8A9A-ED50F87E9376.jpeg



hang in there little soldier. Well face these battles together.

image.jpg
Oops ignore my toes lollll
 
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terraincognita

terraincognita

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Cipro arrived.

been reading the various guides so I’m ready,

going to start with 125MG per 5G if I start.

the question is if or when.

he’s continually expelling waste so for now I’m gonna just keep up with WCs.

image.jpg image.jpg
 
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terraincognita

terraincognita

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Well that’s a great response.

water super cloudy going to do a change now, won’t have water again now for tonight, but I’ll just dose and change it in the morning again, unless it’s cloudy again today when I come home from work.

then I’ll have to go get 5G from the store.

but looks like we’ll save him and get him back to health and then go from there.

Ill post next once I’m done with treatment or if he gets worse in between.

going to treat for 8 days, so 8 days and 7 more nights to go. Then leave him for another week in QT with every other day water changes.

if someone has info on a longer treatment schedule let me know.

BE6AFA04-1F9D-418C-8079-E3B16B9EBE3B.jpeg 287F92D7-C174-4073-A972-AF8A1729E3CF.jpeg

As a note, I thought this might render the antibodies in-effective, but couldn't find anything online that said it would, so I crushed up the pill as small as I could, and then put it in boiling hot RODI water. It dissolved beautifully and I added it to my saltwater mix and then changed after I let the power head mix it for about 10 minutes.

Maybe the short time in hot water was not an issue at all. Who knows, but it helped REALLY dissolve it so there was no pill particles left.
 
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terraincognita

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Wasn't going to post today because nothing new really, but, when I got home just now, he's changed.

This morning at 8:00AM after WC from Cipro he was like this. Before the WC he had tons of strings of stuff coming from him, I kind of "rinsed him" in a small other bucket of Salt Water before adding back to the tank with new water.

Some of those I know are tentacles, he's been ridding himself of tentacles every now and then since being in the QT, wonder what this accomplishes, obviously he's sick, but wonder if it's intentional, or just a byproduct of being sick he doesn't have control over. I guess the only way one would ever know is a lab study of the shed tentacles, to see if there's some organic/nutrient/bacteria he's shedding at the same time, vs a normal healthy one. Too bad I don't have a full lab in my apartment :p

IMG_0254.jpeg


Just got home He's like this. He moved to the egg crate, probably detached his foot and was being blown around, definitely glad I have that egg crate now, otherwise it could've been the power head!


IMG_0267.jpeg



He's in general getting better, and somewhere a long time ago, I read as long as they have voluntary control over their mouth, even if gaping, it's not as bad a sign. (any gaping is a bad sign, obviously, but you know what I mean) Don't know where, but just like I said, random cesspool of info.

I didn't touch him this time, but every other time he's been like this when I touch him he closes up, so I imagine he's trying to accomplish something by doing this. (most likely expel whatever it is, [you can see some of the brown on his lips] )

Anyway, just an update, day 2 of treatment, 6 more to go. Nothing else to do really.... Just keep going....

At least I'll know forever more how to treat nems.... just upset with myself, I could've avoided this I'm sure if I just waited 1 more month to add him to the JBJ 45 from the Fluval, i.e. added him 2 weekends ago when I added the SPS instead of adding him when I added all my softies and LPS. :(. Think I got him sick with the tap water and still establishing tank at that time.

Even water params and tank is totally fine now and I thought he'd just "pull through" with the rest of the LPS and Softies, (They didn't really have any problem in all honesty)

Doesn't seem to be the case, he got some type of bacteria he really didn't like, and even as the tank started maturing he wasn't able to heal himself.

Where the illness came from exactly? Idk, but some bacteria of some kind or another got in and started wreaking havoc in his system.

- He went through my Ugly phase with my JBJ 45 (although a short "ugly phase" of 1 1/2 weeks only, still was not good).... the SPS didn't...

- He was also on the sand bed when I had a Cyano bloom during that ugly phase, which is since gone.... I learned though that they don't recover like coral, and seem to need treatment if they get sick, unhealthy.

- Possibly, existing super healthy Nems would be able to stand this type of battering, and recover on their own, but he was just getting better from being bleached when I got him from LFS. And though he did fine in my 1 Month Fluval with no tap, (and was established enough to start speedily growing corralline).

My JBJ 45 just wasn't as mature as I assumed for some reason that it would be at that point, (Not now and when I posted this, but 1 month ago)

I thought it would be quicker/non-existant ugly phase and establishment, with Live Wet Rock from my existing tank and LFS. But I've now also learned quicker sure, non-existent no way you will always have it, not matter how quick or fast, it'll come and go at some point, and you can't fight it, even with perfect rock and sand. Again un-intentional, I wouldn't have even transferred my fish if I felt it was going to have as many swings as it did the next two following weeks on that tank transfer/upgrade.

Who knows, maybe with no tap water it would've been a different outcome, either way I'm much more educated in Nems now. Nothing else in my tank had anything near this type of drawback. Guess Nems will be nems.

Anyone else who ever makes their nem sick...... you can follow along now lol.....

Sorry buddy.... I learned....
 
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chizerbunoi

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Dont beat yourself up too much about it. We all start somewhere. I hope with this journal many beginners learn from your experience as well and wait for a mature system.

I personally have had many anemones, softies, LPS and SPS die. I think about all those acros and elegance corals. Then there are many more fish.

Gigantea are one of the most hardest anemones to keep mainly because they ship poorly and get disease. Reef keeping is a big learning curve compared to fresh water as you have to learn about so much more. But once you get into it, it’s a life long passion. I remember the days when I thought, koi, discus and high tech aquascaping was enough for me. Hah

As for your gig, I would move it off the egg crate if it’s not attached. Turn off the powerhead and see if it falls off. You can put a mug handle to weigh a portion of it down and hope it attaches to the mug. Makes transporting to the main tank a lot easier. If it’s attached then I would leave it.
 
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Dont beat yourself up too much about it. We all start somewhere. I hope with this journal many beginners learn from your experience as well and wait for a mature system.

I personally have had many anemones, softies, LPS and SPS die. I think about all those acros and elegance corals. Then there are many more fish.

Gigantea are one of the most hardest anemones to keep mainly because they ship poorly and get disease. Reef keeping is a big learning curve compared to fresh water as you have to learn about so much more. But once you get into it, it’s a life long passion. I remember the days when I thought, koi, discus and high tech aquascaping was enough for me. Hah

As for your gig, I would move it off the egg crate if it’s not attached. Turn off the powerhead and see if it falls off. You can put a mug handle to weigh a portion of it down and hope it attaches to the mug. Makes transporting to the main tank a lot easier. If it’s attached then I would leave it.
Yeah, the learning curve is fine, and I've been super successful (per my own definition of successful) with all types of coral now, Nems are a totally different animal though for sure, Carpets more so than BTA's and other Long Tenticles nems I've dealt with at least.

While these tanks are new I've kept a reef tank up to 3 years, While it's not 15 it's still experience :).

-------------------------

He was attached and still is actually, but I do need something for him to attach too.

I have a few rock pieces in the Sump area of my JBJ 45 but they've only been there for a week, and I'm too wary of what's going on with them to add them. I could use a mug but my Fiance would just be like "really now the mugs too" haha

so i'll figure something out for him to attach to. I have a broken ceramic pot pieces in my "gardening area" i'll probably clean one of those up.
 

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My .02.

Do you have LR that is seasoned that you can make a triangle for its foot to sit in? Try protecting the foot so it attaches well, and is protected, while still giving the disk high flow for purging. They put up with high flow well, but try to protect the foot from the blast.
They’re all different and finding what they want can be tough. Maybe try raising your lights a foot? How I would treat it without meds is different than with meds. I’ve found high light with meds can be pretty harsh on them, and that guy to me, looks like it’s squinting from too much light. It’s trial and error sometimes, I increase lights until they withdraw, then back off. Takes time to figure out.

It’s like a balance, every little thing you can do to help may tip it in success. I use reef crystals. I don’t think the brand is too important as long as parameters are ok, and it’s consistent every 24 hours when you change it, it’s the same “reset” each time. I hope you can get it to stabilize.
 
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