Skeletons showing, Polyps bailing out

[Brit’s Fish]

These are the times when I just get bummed out about reefing. I’ve been keeping reef tanks almost 2 years now so I’m not a total newbie but by no means a seasoned vet and some days, I feel like I know stuff and other days, I wonder whether I’m cut out for this hobby. I’m sure we all have those days.

I’ve had this 120g display (standard 4x2x2) w/ ~25 g sump for about 9 months now. I have two AI Hydra 32s mounted 13” above the water line. My parameters are not perfect but they are very stable… I test weekly (sometimes more when I’m extra frustrated) and before water changes & then a couple days after. I use Tropic Marin salt & make my own RODI.
I am having fine success with zoas, leathers and mushrooms, my RBTA is massive and happy. All of my corals were dipped before being in the tank.

Here are my gripes:
My hammers are bailing out & I had a nice 4 head (that was only 2 heads when I got it) green torch brown jelly suddenly a few weeks ago & pulled it immediately so it didn’t spread. I had an amazing baby gold torch that was growing well from a tiny speck suddenly bail out… I watched it peel from its tiny skeleton. I have some favias & chalice frags that are just receding like crazy. I have some scolys, a Trachy & a cynarina on the sandbed and I can see their skeletons. The cynarina is by far the worst… it used to be huge in my nano tank & I had to move it because It was so big.

I added a really cheap green Monti Cap frag the other day to see if it would take off & it’s already white around the edges after a few days. I noticed it after the first 24 hours though.

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Side note - I did take these pictures after a water change so the closed zoas are just unhappy but usually always open. The other corals kind of always look like that.

 

[Dcloser12]

What are your parameters? Alk may be swinging and ph. In my personal experience alk swings have cost me more than anything. Can I see a wider view? Power head placement etc. Something is stressing them to the point they are bailing. Research I've found says every torch and hammer can fall to bjd, it's a matter of the overall health of the coral. I am willing to bet your not as stable as you think. Alkalinity is to high or swinging like crazy. Years ago ihad a spike to 13 and then drove it back down to 10 the same day. Stressed many of my coral to the point only the leathers and a few pipe organs survived.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Hopefully we can get you some help, a few questions that might help us help you.

1. You mentions your parameters arnt "perfect" which could be contributing to the problem. When you say not perfect could you please share them? What your idea of perfect and my/our idea of perfect may vary.

Sal=
Alk=
PO4=
NO3=
Cal=
Mag=
PH=

2. When did you notice the first signs of the recession and bailout? Its my experience that often times when you start to notice these things it is the result of something that happened weeks ago. It take the coral that long to show the results of the issue. Can you think of anything that may have been done over the last month or so? Parameter swings? hands in the tank alot without cleaning them beforehand? cleaning around the tank with things? buring incense or candles? ect...

3. Have you added any new coral to the tank before you started noticing this? A possible pest or an unknown bacteria may have entered?

4. Have you checked all your equipment to be sure it is running correctly and isnt rusting?

 

[Dcloser12]

Hopefully we can get you some help, a few questions that might help us help you.

1. You mentions your parameters arnt "perfect" which could be contributing to the problem. When you say not perfect could you please share them? What your idea of perfect and my/our idea of perfect may vary.

Sal=
Alk=
PO4=
NO3=
Cal=
Mag=
PH=

2. When did you notice the first signs of the recession and bailout? Its my experience that often times when you start to notice these things it is the result of something that happened weeks ago. It take the coral that long to show the results of the issue. Can you think of anything that may have been done over the last month or so? Parameter swings? hands in the tank alot without cleaning them beforehand? cleaning around the tank with things? buring incense or candles? ect...

3. Have you added any new coral to the tank before you started noticing this? A possible pest or an unknown bacteria may have entered?

4. Have you checked all your equipment to be sure it is running correctly and isnt rusting?

The leathers could also be an issue. They release toxins that irritate surrounding coral. If his parameters are way off or swinging that could be enough to stress them and the leathers making a double whammy.

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Oh my goodness… sometimes this website is a little buggy when I post from my phone… half of my original post is missing! Here’s what got cut out… I swear I know better than to not post parameters!!


My parameters (before water change - 2 weeks since last):
Temp 77.
Salinity 1.026 (hanna)
Nitrates 47.6 (hanna)
PO4 0.1-0.25 (salifert)
Calcium 480 (salifert)
Magnesium 1380 (salifert)
Alkalinity 7.3 (salifert) I feel like this is low but it’s very stable, even when I dose Brightwell Alkalin8.3 by hand every other morning.
pH 8.2 (Red Sea)
Ammonia 0 (Red Sea) I don’t usually test ammonia but figured I’d check today.

I’m using the Pirates of the Caribbean schedule on my Hydra 32s, although it’s dialed down a bit. I thought I had a screenshot of my settings but I’m away from my tank and can’t share them now, of course. I’ll post them in the morning.

I’ve attached some pictures of the corals that I don’t think are looking amazing, along with the graveyard/hospital portion of my sandbed. The lighting is a little lower over there but my Tomini tang has also chosen this area as her “litter box”. Can’t win.

Any advice would be great!!

 

[Brit’s Fish]

What are your parameters? Alk may be swinging and ph. In my personal experience alk swings have cost me more than anything. Can I see a wider view? Power head placement etc. Something is stressing them to the point they are bailing. Research I've found says every torch and hammer can fall to bjd, it's a matter of the overall health of the coral. I am willing to bet your not as stable as you think. Alkalinity is to high or swinging like crazy. Years ago ihad a spike to 13 and then drove it back down to 10 the same day. Stressed many of my coral to the point only the leathers and a few pipe organs survived.

Sorry, my original post got cut off somehow… I swear I had my parameters in there! Alkalinity is one of the things that really bugs be in my parameters. I have an ApexEL and I think I’m going to add a trident at some point in the near future because I can only test manually so often.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

The leathers could also be an issue. They release toxins that irritate surrounding coral. If his parameters are way off or swinging that could be enough to stress them and the leathers making a double whammy.

Please dont take offense as your thoughts and input are valid but i dont think its helpful to jump to conclusions until we have a greater picture from the OP.

Its my experience it could be a million and one things, hence why i asked the questions i asked to get a better understanding to be more helpful.

The OP stated this tank has been running 9 months and i can only assume these issues are fairly recent which in my opinion would rule out flow, lighting and the leathers being an issue.

Another question for the OP.....Are you running carbon at all?

Sorry!! The OP posted as i was typing this....once again please dont take offense.

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Hopefully we can get you some help, a few questions that might help us help you.

1. You mentions your parameters arnt "perfect" which could be contributing to the problem. When you say not perfect could you please share them? What your idea of perfect and my/our idea of perfect may vary.

Sal=
Alk=
PO4=
NO3=
Cal=
Mag=
PH=

2. When did you notice the first signs of the recession and bailout? Its my experience that often times when you start to notice these things it is the result of something that happened weeks ago. It take the coral that long to show the results of the issue. Can you think of anything that may have been done over the last month or so? Parameter swings? hands in the tank alot without cleaning them beforehand? cleaning around the tank with things? buring incense or candles? ect...

3. Have you added any new coral to the tank before you started noticing this? A possible pest or an unknown bacteria may have entered?

4. Have you checked all your equipment to be sure it is running correctly and isnt rusting?

Sorry about that! My original post somehow had the whole second half missing which listed my parameters. They’re in my replies now though, along with info on my lighting schedule.

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Please dont take offense as your thoughts and input are valid but i dont think its helpful to jump to conclusions until we have a greater picture from the OP.

Its my experience it could be a million and one things, hence why i asked the questions i asked to get a better understanding to be more helpful.

The OP stated this tank has been running 9 months and i can only assume these issues are fairly recent which in my opinion would rule out flow, lighting and the leathers being an issue.

Another question for the OP.....Are you running carbon at all?

Actually, I have been fairly concerned that my very large Yellow Finger Leather has something to do with this. My RBTA has decided to take up residence on the same rock & stings the leather occasionally. The leather has completely grown onto the rock they’re on so it won’t be easy to remove. And of course, this rock is halfway down my scape so it will be a project to get out of my tank to remove the leather.
I do have 3 bags of ChemiPure Blue in the sump but I’m not dosing carbon or anything.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Oh my goodness… sometimes this website is a little buggy when I post from my phone… half of my original post is missing! Here’s what got cut out… I swear I know better than to not post parameters!!


My parameters (before water change - 2 weeks since last):
Temp 77.
Salinity 1.026 (hanna)
Nitrates 47.6 (hanna)
PO4 0.1-0.25 (salifert)
Calcium 480 (salifert)
Magnesium 1380 (salifert)
Alkalinity 7.3 (salifert) I feel like this is low but it’s very stable, even when I dose Brightwell Alkalin8.3 by hand every other morning.
pH 8.2 (Red Sea)
Ammonia 0 (Red Sea) I don’t usually test ammonia but figured I’d check today.

I’m using the Pirates of the Caribbean schedule on my Hydra 32s, although it’s dialed down a bit. I thought I had a screenshot of my settings but I’m away from my tank and can’t share them now, of course. I’ll post them in the morning.

I’ve attached some pictures of the corals that I don’t think are looking amazing, along with the graveyard/hospital portion of my sandbed. The lighting is a little lower over there but my Tomini tang has also chosen this area as her “litter box”. Can’t win.

Any advice would be great!!

The only two things that stand out from your parameters to me are your PO4 and NO3. They are higher than i like mine but i do keep some SPS. I know many who keep the coral you do and have higher parameters without issue. Your system though may not be liking the higher amounts.

The ALK at 7.3 in my opinion i would not be worried about. NSW is lower than that. I have and often keep my ALK between 7.5 -8.5. If it has been stable at 7-8 that would not be my first thought as being an issue

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Hopefully we can get you some help, a few questions that might help us help you.

1. You mentions your parameters arnt "perfect" which could be contributing to the problem. When you say not perfect could you please share them? What your idea of perfect and my/our idea of perfect may vary.

Sal=
Alk=
PO4=
NO3=
Cal=
Mag=
PH=

2. When did you notice the first signs of the recession and bailout? Its my experience that often times when you start to notice these things it is the result of something that happened weeks ago. It take the coral that long to show the results of the issue. Can you think of anything that may have been done over the last month or so? Parameter swings? hands in the tank alot without cleaning them beforehand? cleaning around the tank with things? buring incense or candles? ect...

3. Have you added any new coral to the tank before you started noticing this? A possible pest or an unknown bacteria may have entered?

4. Have you checked all your equipment to be sure it is running correctly and isnt rusting?

To answer your other 3 questions -
2. I would say that I started noticing small issues here and there about 3 months ago. It’s been slowly becoming more frequent to the point that now I’ve lost a torch and a few hammer polyps just this week. I haven’t changed much other than switching from Reef Crystals to Tropic Marin salt about 6 months ago. I finally also decided to add a reef octopus 150INT skimmer about 4 months ago. I don’t think I’ve had any major parameter swings because I’ve been testing a lot mostly due to the fact that these issues are really bothering me & I keep thinking there must be something I should be able to see in my parameters. They keep coming up almost the same every time I test - especially Alk, Mag & Calcium.
3. Maybe a bacteria? I have dipped all of the corals I’ve added in my tank with CoralRx - the liquid one.
4. All of my equipment is newer than the tank is… I used some older equipment in the beginning but changed pretty much everything out within the first month & a half. Maxspect Jump 6k pump, titanium heater (off Amazon though) & a single Hygger wave maker (also Amazon). I need to put another on the other end of my tank, but I’m mainly using this to try to keep the flow going past the larger corals I have at one end of my tank.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Actually, I have been fairly concerned that my very large Yellow Finger Leather has something to do with this. My RBTA has decided to take up residence on the same rock & stings the leather occasionally. The leather has completely grown onto the rock they’re on so it won’t be easy to remove. And of course, this rock is halfway down my scape so it will be a project to get out of my tank to remove the leather.
I do have 3 bags of ChemiPure Blue in the sump but I’m not dosing carbon or anything.

The leather could be an issue if the anemone is stinging it. I suppose it could be releasing toxins into the water. Is this stinging recent?

Im not familiar with chemipure blue. Im not talking about carbon dosing but using granulated carbon which would remove toxins.

 

[Brit’s Fish]

The leather could be an issue if the anemone is stinging it. I suppose it could be releasing toxins into the water. Is this stinging recent?

Im not familiar with chemipure blue. Im not talking about carbon dosing but using granulated carbon which would remove toxins.

The stinging has been going on for a couple of months now. It doesn’t happen every day, but certainly several times a week. I do also have a large toadstool leather that is off on its own but I’ve had it for 1 1/2 years. It used to shed maybe once every 1-2 months, now that it’s been in this tank for 6 months, I think it sheds almost every other week. The hermit crabs that think they live in it probably aren’t helping. I have no allegiance to these leathers so if anyone suggested I get rid of them, I’d be fine with it. LOL

ChemiPure Blue is just a brand of bagged carbon.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

To answer your other 3 questions -
2. I would say that I started noticing small issues here and there about 3 months ago. It’s been slowly becoming more frequent to the point that now I’ve lost a torch and a few hammer polyps just this week. I haven’t changed much other than switching from Reef Crystals to Tropic Marin salt about 6 months ago. I finally also decided to add a reef octopus 150INT skimmer about 4 months ago. I don’t think I’ve had any major parameter swings because I’ve been testing a lot mostly due to the fact that these issues are really bothering me & I keep thinking there must be something I should be able to see in my parameters. They keep coming up almost the same every time I test - especially Alk, Mag & Calcium.
3. Maybe a bacteria? I have dipped all of the corals I’ve added in my tank with CoralRx - the liquid one.
4. All of my equipment is newer than the tank is… I used some older equipment in the beginning but changed pretty much everything out within the first month & a half. Maxspect Jump 6k pump, titanium heater (off Amazon though) & a single Hygger wave maker (also Amazon). I need to put another on the other end of my tank, but I’m mainly using this to try to keep the flow going past the larger corals I have at one end of my tank.

It seems equipment is fine.

I mention bacteria because BJD is linked to that. There is a great thread about it here. Using Cipro has helped me and others with this. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...ic-treatments-for-brown-jelly-disease.782438/

 

[Brit’s Fish]

Thank you! I will check out that thread.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

The stinging has been going on for a couple of months now. It doesn’t happen every day, but certainly several times a week. I do also have a large toadstool leather that is off on its own but I’ve had it for 1 1/2 years. It used to shed maybe once every 1-2 months, now that it’s been in this tank for 6 months, I think it sheds almost every other week. The hermit crabs that think they live in it probably aren’t helping. I have no allegiance to these leathers so if anyone suggested I get rid of them, I’d be fine with it. LOL

ChemiPure Blue is just a brand of bagged carbon.

Haha, so you are running carbon which would make me think the leathers arnt a big issue but i guess i wouldnt totally rule them out. I am not to familiar with them as i havent kept them before. If your not to attached to them you could remove them. This would eliminate one potential problem.

You could also try running more carbon and see if that makes a difference with the potential toxin problem of them being stung/irritated.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Thank you! I will check out that thread.

Your welcome

From what youve shared thus far, i would consider getting your NO3 and PO4 down. To do this i would plan for a series of large water changes. i have done something similar called "operation refresh" haha

Plan to change out 50-75% of your water over 3-4 days. So for you 60-90gals total...about 30gals each day. If your NO3 is 47 this should cut it about in half when your done. Doing it over a few days will reduce shock to your system.

You may want to consider your feeding or how the levels became elevated. Do you run a fuge? maybe something to consider.

As mentioned before, consider running more carbon for a period to see if that helps. Maybe move the leather so it isnt being stung or remove it all together.

Cipro may also be helpful and in my experience wont hurt.

Feel free to ask questions if ya need anything!

 

[zoaprince]

The leathers could also be an issue. They release toxins that irritate surrounding coral. If his parameters are way off or swinging that could be enough to stress them and the leathers making a double whammy.

is it common for leathers to cause issues with LPS? I had a die of of a few hammers as well, and wonder if my leathers are the killers.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

When my lps start going, I check po4 daily to monitor potential swings. Not to send you down the number chasing game but po4 swings easily in my tank and my coral hate that. I try to keep it around .1. Around .3 is where everything starts goin south for me