Skimmerless, will it work?

[gregkn73]

And please explain me, if I can keep easily nutrients at levels I want, oxygenation of my water is not a problem, since I keep a high bioload, with no fish dying, why I need a skimmer? What more can i accomplish by using one?

I would really like to know if there is an answer to the above question, because I am not satisfied 100%with my skimmerless reef, and wonder if skimmer can provide my reef with something I have missed

Also if a fish will die while I am away, I don't want algae or skimmers took care of that, so I have cleaners shrimp and sherpent stars take care of them. Crabs could also help in this case.

 

[shred5]

On Triton's claim , that organics produced by chaeto ,is a mild organic dosing....but if you say that acetate , is better I trust you more In any case what I wanted to point , is that organics produced by algae, are most probably beneficial than harmful, to reef inhapidants.

Some algae produce toxins just like corals so they can compete with corals for space and can burn them, I have seen this.


I have seen some of the same algae grown in a fuge and they caused issues with sps and once removed the corals colored back up. Not really scientific and anecdotal but it was observed more than once.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On Triton's claim , that organics produced by chaeto ,is a mild organic dosing....but if you say that acetate , is better I trust you more In any case what I wanted to point , is that organics produced by algae, are most probably beneficial than harmful, to reef inhapidants.

I've asked once recently in a discussion what evidence there is of this process being significant, but no one chimed in with any evidence.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I asked Triton about their claim relating to release of organics from algae here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...roteins-carbohydrates-and-metabolites.359116/

 

[Cory]

The most eye catching part of this post was the .25 ammonia claim and only changing skimmer stopped that

Questions: is .25 ammonia sustained in a mature reef tank associated with any patterned key words on searches...how prevalent is that ..25 reading on the web compared to other ammonia readings? in the sustained .25 threads were any confounds to that reading stated?

A reef tank with coralline and aging to that degree shown here is known to process 3-6 ppm ammonia a day per cycling threads where we've tested live rock setups for oxidation ranges.

What mechanism here would be generating/ receiving that much ammonia continually and only be able to oxidize 90% of it, leaving the tail end non fluctuating on a daily basis?

Skimming is removing whole and partial proteins before degradation...ammonia spikes aren't found in skimmerless systems if those proteins break down within, they're often just higher nutrient systems. I am intently searching for the true mechanism of ammonia here. Ammonia should always be 100% predictable given verification of all higher tank animals namely fish. I've never seen hardware determine ammonia presence given that and any normal loading of live rock or live sand. I have only seen reef tanks present as excessive surface area present to fully oxidize tank waste which is hardly ever 5 ppm average. That's a massive fish only system few run that much nitrogen in a reef aquarium.

If we don't pinpoint the ammonia readings here then I'll be forever wondering about it

Just a thought but skimmers remove bacteria. Whst kind im not sure. But my hypothesis is that possibly the skimmer removed ammonia oxidizing bacteria from the water column. There is a study showing reef aquariums are devoid of water born bacteria unlike wild reefs. So possibly thats the reason. Maybe ammonia oxidizing bacteria aren't actually abundant on the rock and sand but within the water.

 

[Hans-Werner]

The nitrifying bacteria and ammonia oxidizing bacteria should typically be substrate bound. Biological filters increase nitrification. So skimming has minor influence to nitrification.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Skimmerless, will it work?
Serious about removing DOC ? Use activated carbon.

Serious about lowering cO2 & increasing O2? Use algae filtration. Photosynthesis produces O2 from cO2. Skimmers don't make oxygen, they inject gases.

 

[Cory]

Or it could be said the skimmer removes some organics before they have the chance to break down and become food for algae.

Skimmer has better control over nutrients. If a fish dies it takes a while for algae to grow enough to consume the nutrients where a right sized skimmer should handle it. I have also seen algae die, Then what they release nutrients back? can happen.

I am not against algae filters or fuges just playing the other side. I still prefer a skimmer and use these other things to assist in some occasions. I am not a fan of cheato because to me it traps more detritus than anything. I have seen people rip apart their balls of cheato and so much crap in the middle.

What id love to know is what happens to a dead fish. Does it decay right where it is and release no3/po4 or does it float away tiny bits to the skimmer?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

There is a study showing reef aquariums are devoid of water born bacteria unlike wild reefs. So possibly thats the reason. Maybe ammonia oxidizing bacteria aren't actually abundant on the rock and sand but within the water.

You maybe be thinking of Feldman's paper https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

If you look at Table 1, specifically at the specs for the aquariums, you'll see that tanks using a sand bed have the low water column bacteria count compared to those that don't

 

[Cory]

This one? Not sure what 590 +- 70k means.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

This one? Not sure what 590 +- 70k means.

yes thats the one
590,000. Margin of error = + or - 70,000