So frustrated!!!

[homer1475]

No your missing the point of it being a new tank. In which nutrients run wild while trying to grow beneficial bacteria, and general biodiversity. GHA is a normal part of owning a reef tank, you can't stop it from happening. You can limit it's stronghold, but it always happens with dry rock.

You want to control nutrients in a way thats not normal, and usually end up with new reefers driving them to 0. New reefers don't understand how nutrients effects the biodiversity in the tank, and typically to get rid of the algae, they drive them to 0 with unconventional methods.

Nothing beats back algae but biodiversity and time. Specially with a dry rock start.

 

[HK180]

Throwing money at the problem won't solve it--you need a game plan. I wouldn't jump to bleaching/restarting your tank just yet though. You can transfer the water from your current tank into a new tank with your corals/inverts, just keep it fallow for at least 72 days or so, but I'd start with new water since your current tank likely has some imbalances (due to algae outbreaks). If you do this, turn your lights off in your previous tank to kill off algae and dose ammonia as needed to keep your bacteria alive. How old is your system?

What kind of rock do you have? We originally had real reef rock and that stuff is concrete on the inside--no room for bacterial growth. If that's the case, adding more surface area by adding live/porous rock, more sand, or something like Marine pure blocks could help. That helped a little bit with my fiancé's cyano outbreaks.

What kind of algae do you have? Algae results from nutrient imbalances/high nutrient levels. Over time (and with some elbow grease), it will disappear. When I rebooted my tank, I had alternating GHA and dyno outbreaks for 3-4 months. I did heavy W/C and scrubbed my rocks of algae 2x per week. It took time (I'd get GHA when my NO4 was 50ppm, dynos when my nutrients dropped), but worked. Do you have an algae scrubber/sump? That also helped me. You can also dose bacteria to compete for nutrients or use a UV if your dyno is free-floating. Carbon dosing is another option.

I've almost quit when all of my fish died from a bacterial infection, but kept going because of the love of the hobby. Purchasing pre-QT/conditioned fish helps a lot. TSM sells QT fish and ReefPro/LADD sells fish that have been housed in copper/monitored for disease. I move my fish into a monitoring tank (live rock, algae, sand, etc) to acclimate the fish/get it eating without competition and monitor it for disease. I'm just not willing to risk it anymore. Did you buy your fish online or in a LFS? Source is important, but also how you acclimate. Some species just don't handle large increases in salinity (like 1.017 to 1.025) and need to be acclimated over days to your tank. Drip acclimation without ammonia scavenging can cause stress/burns, leading to secondary diseases and immunosuppression.

Good luck!

 

[Idech]

First off I’m wondering if part of the problem is my rock ? I used old rocks that I’d soaked in bleach for weeks, then rinsed and soaked with prime , rinsed and soaked several more times before drying and using in my current tank.

I did exactly the same and so far the tank has been running for 2 months and I’m in the diatoms phase. Green algae (like coralline, but green) is nicely growing on the rocks, so I think it will go away fast enough.

It's part of owning a reef tank and starting it all with dry man made materials.

In Canada, at least where I’m from, you can’t buy live rock. LFS no longer carry it and it can’t be ordered online. My tank is 9 months old and never had a problem with algae. Just some diatoms at the beginning and it went away with the right cleaning crew.

I’m just a beginner but I think it’s possible because I see beautiful tanks that were started with dry rocks all the time. I’m talking about real rock from the ocean though, not man made.

 

[homer1475]

Who said anything about driving no3 and po4 to 0???

I certainly didn't...

Missing the point of CONTROLLING no3 to po4 to acceptable beneficial ranges for corals.... while.... starving out nuisance algae. It's a balancing act that isn't hard once you have things in balance.

Overnight solutions don't exist.. Selective carbon dosing takes about 6weeks to pull off with proper dosing and daily testing until you hit that sweet range.

Once there its relatively easy to maintain unless you start up ignorant practices again.

The key concepts:
> proper husbandry skills and knowledge; knowing when to react, how to react and not to overreact
> managing major/minor elements thru WCs or dosing
> managing no3 and po4 thru cultivating beneficial bacteria thru carbon dosing, or other methods like a refugium

While I certainly don't disagree with you, you have to understand were talking to new reefers who don't understand the small nuances that go into controlling nutrients.

The problem starts with controlling nutrients, new reefers sees algae declining, so figures out "why not drive nutrient levels lower to solve the algae issues faster". They don't understand that everything, yes everything needs nutrients to survive.

It's the balancing act they don't understand, and why I never tell new reefers to try and control nutrients through unconventional methods.

 

[Aqua Man]

Typical trap new reefers fall into. Algae growth, limit nutrients, heck even drive them to 0, then get dino's. Treat for dino's by upping nutrients, to get algae again. Never ending cycle and cause 99% of new reefers to quit.

Not new but did fall into the trap! Drove nutrition down trying to get rid of some turf algae. Yup, Dinos!

I’m actually adding more nutrients now then before and algae is not a problem.

Algae and coral Need the same nutrients.

So I added an urchin, more hermits and snails. Had to re home the urchin, algae could not keep up with his appetite!

 

[ZoWhat]

While I certainly don't disagree with you, you have to understand were talking to new reefers who don't understand the small nuances that go into controlling nutrients.

Is this like saying...

Well they're a new driver who hasn't learned how to yield turning left at a super busy intersection? They'll eventually figure it out

Controlling No3 and po4 should be near the top of the skills they should learn in the first 30days of being a reefer

 

[homer1475]

Is this like saying...

Well they're a new driver who hasn't earned how to yield turning left at a super busy intersection? They'll eventually figure it out

Exactly what I'm saying. Nice analogy BTW.

 

[Forty-Two]

Trust me, I was in the same place 10 years back.

The reason for all the algae in new tanks.....

You have all that pristine white rock with 0 life on it. Prime breeding ground for algae. Until that pristine rock surface is covered in biofilm, coralline, or life in general, algae will take hold. It has nothing to out compete it.

This. You can try dosing frozen phyto and frozen rotifers which may help out compete the cyano and algae - however you have pristine rock which is a bigger/harder battle to fight.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you
I just worried it was something in my rocks that caused it to return.
I know all the fish dying messed with my water parameters pretty bad, I’ve been doing 15-20% water changes and using a brush on the rocks as well as removing any algae I can. I’ll watch the video

I do not think there is anything wrong with your rock. I'm not sure scrubbing rocks is necessary (but as multiple people have said - a picture would be great). Also - knowing your NO3 and PO4 alkalinity, etc would be helpful. Plus - what is your 'PAR'. At the top and bottom of your tank - and what kinds of coral do you have in the tank? I would consider larger water changes - IF you think the dying fish 'messed up your parameters'. Are you using Activated carbon by chance? I would definitely not 'start over' - BUT another idea - you could do it the way it was done decades ago - take out SOME of your 'dead rocks' replace them with 'Live rock' (not Carib-sea) - but direct from the ocean live rock. then - the 'dead' rocks will be covered and dark - and less algae will grow over time.

PS - I disagree with some of the others - eventually, if you have enough Chaeto - it will out-grow hair and other green algae. Rather than 'waiting for it to grow more' - you could always buy some more Chaeto - that will 'help' in any case. however - make sure you have a good filter so that no chaeto 'pieces' get into the tank - or THEY will take over the relatively empty rock space.

As to the parasites - the key to me is not getting new rock or sterilizing the tank - if you use a 76 day fallow period you will be fine. But - You should remove the goby from the tank. THEN - when you buy new fish to restock the tank (hopefully some with algae eating capabilities - make sure you are getting them from a reputable source, healthy, pre-quarantined if possible. - So that you avoid the wipe out again. To me thats the most important part of this picture. The algae will be controlled eventually.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

Throwing money at the problem won't solve it--you need a game plan. I wouldn't jump to bleaching/restarting your tank just yet though. You can transfer the water from your current tank into a new tank with your corals/inverts, just keep it fallow for at least 72 days or so, but I'd start with new water since your current tank likely has some imbalances (due to algae outbreaks). If you do this, turn your lights off in your previous tank to kill off algae and dose ammonia as needed to keep your bacteria alive. How old is your system?

What kind of rock do you have? We originally had real reef rock and that stuff is concrete on the inside--no room for bacterial growth. If that's the case, adding more surface area by adding live/porous rock, more sand, or something like Marine pure blocks could help. That helped a little bit with my fiancé's cyano outbreaks.

What kind of algae do you have? Algae results from nutrient imbalances/high nutrient levels. Over time (and with some elbow grease), it will disappear. When I rebooted my tank, I had alternating GHA and dyno outbreaks for 3-4 months. I did heavy W/C and scrubbed my rocks of algae 2x per week. It took time (I'd get GHA when my NO4 was 50ppm, dynos when my nutrients dropped), but worked. Do you have an algae scrubber/sump? That also helped me. You can also dose bacteria to compete for nutrients or use a UV if your dyno is free-floating. Carbon dosing is another option.

I've almost quit when all of my fish died from a bacterial infection, but kept going because of the love of the hobby. Purchasing pre-QT/conditioned fish helps a lot. TSM sells QT fish and ReefPro/LADD sells fish that have been housed in copper/monitored for disease. I move my fish into a monitoring tank (live rock, algae, sand, etc) to acclimate the fish/get it eating without competition and monitor it for disease. I'm just not willing to risk it anymore. Did you buy your fish online or in a LFS? Source is important, but also how you acclimate. Some species just don't handle large increases in salinity (like 1.017 to 1.025) and need to be acclimated over days to your tank. Drip acclimation without ammonia scavenging can cause stress/burns, leading to secondary diseases and immunosuppression.

Good luck!

To avoid having to go through a full cycle so I can get my corals and inverts back into their tank ASAP can I use atleast half the water from my current tank, replace the sand and rock
After I thoroughly clean and sanitize the current tank. I’m thinking of using caribe seas life rock since it already has bacteria painted on or something as well as it has a nice color.
I guess I just don’t trust the rocks I’m using and I don’t want to risk whatever killed all my fish
I still plan to wait 74 days before adding fish regardless what I do

 

[Hilltopreef90]

I do not think there is anything wrong with your rock. I'm not sure scrubbing rocks is necessary (but as multiple people have said - a picture would be great). Also - knowing your NO3 and PO4 alkalinity, etc would be helpful. Plus - what is your 'PAR'. At the top and bottom of your tank - and what kinds of coral do you have in the tank? I would consider larger water changes - IF you think the dying fish 'messed up your parameters'. Are you using Activated carbon by chance? I would definitely not 'start over' - BUT another idea - you could do it the way it was done decades ago - take out SOME of your 'dead rocks' replace them with 'Live rock' (not Carib-sea) - but direct from the ocean live rock. then - the 'dead' rocks will be covered and dark - and less algae will grow over time.

PS - I disagree with some of the others - eventually, if you have enough Chaeto - it will out-grow hair and other green algae. Rather than 'waiting for it to grow more' - you could always buy some more Chaeto - that will 'help' in any case. however - make sure you have a good filter so that no chaeto 'pieces' get into the tank - or THEY will take over the relatively empty rock space.

As to the parasites - the key to me is not getting new rock or sterilizing the tank - if you use a 76 day fallow period you will be fine. But - You should remove the goby from the tank. THEN - when you buy new fish to restock the tank (hopefully some with algae eating capabilities - make sure you are getting them from a reputable source, healthy, pre-quarantined if possible. - So that you avoid the wipe out again. To me thats the most important part of this picture. The algae will be controlled eventually.

I’ll get a picture on my lunch break

 

[MnFish1]

To avoid having to go through a full cycle so I can get my corals and inverts back into their tank ASAP can I use atleast half the water from my current tank, replace the sand and rock
After I thoroughly clean and sanitize the current tank. I’m thinking of using caribe seas life rock since it already has bacteria painted on or something as well as it has a nice color.
I guess I just don’t trust the rocks I’m using and I don’t want to risk whatever killed all my fish
I still plan to wait 74 days before adding fish regardless what I do

Why exactly - are you replacing sand, rock and sanitizing the whole tank? IMHO - leave your corals and CUC, etc and Rocks in your tank. This now gets more 'interesting' to me. Why do you think 'velvet' killed your fish, as compared to something else that is not a disease. Do you think something on the rock killed them and thats the reason you are wanting to change out everything?

How old is your tank? Because - within a couple months - your rock is just as 'live' with nitrifiers as 'carib-sea' live rock. If you're going to leave your tank fallow 'anyway' - another idea is put your corals in a second tank if you have one - use some substrate from your current filter, etc - and turn down the lights in the other main tank while its fallow - that will allow bacterial growth - and film growth.

I also want to make another point - that at least think has some merit. like @homer1475 I strongly believe the major issue is too much open area thats not colonized. HOWEVER - even in the ocean - where there are supposedly 'perfect parameters, light, etc' algae grows all over the place - except where its well shaded by coral. Which is why I think the main goal for you is to keep your fallow tank as planned - and figure out a way to either wait out the algae 'problem' - or buy larger corals, etc that will grow, take up nutrients and create more shading on. your base rock. I hope this helps - and There are a number of great suggestions made by lots of people here. I am not trying to say 'do it my way'. Just wanting to see if all of the causes of the problem (if it is a problem) - have been investigated.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

I’ll get a picture on my lunch break

At this point I’m more concerned about my coral and not jeopardizing it’s health and growth, if the algae continues I know it’ll cause issues with my corals but if I move them I might jeopardize them also by starting over ‍
I think I’ll wait a bit longer to see if the algae gets worse, currently it’s only turned my rocks green and the algae on the inverts came off easily.
I just know how fast algae especially gha can take over.
My tank is only 4-5 months old

 

[Hilltopreef90]

Why exactly - are you replacing sand, rock and sanitizing the whole tank? IMHO - leave your corals and CUC, etc and Rocks in your tank. This now gets more 'interesting' to me. Why do you think 'velvet' killed your fish, as compared to something else that is not a disease. Do you think something on the rock killed them and thats the reason you are wanting to change out everything?

How old is your tank? Because - within a couple months - your rock is just as 'live' with nitrifiers as 'carib-sea' live rock. If you're going to leave your tank fallow 'anyway' - another idea is put your corals in a second tank if you have one - use some substrate from your current filter, etc - and turn down the lights in the other main tank while its fallow - that will allow bacterial growth - and film growth.

I also want to make another point - that at least think has some merit. like @homer1475 I strongly believe the major issue is too much open area thats not colonized. HOWEVER - even in the ocean - where there are supposedly 'perfect parameters, light, etc' algae grows all over the place - except where its well shaded by coral. Which is why I think the main goal for you is to keep your fallow tank as planned - and figure out a way to either wait out the algae 'problem' - or buy larger corals, etc that will grow, take up nutrients and create more shading on. your base rock. I hope this helps - and There are a number of great suggestions made by lots of people here. I am not trying to say 'do it my way'. Just wanting to see if all of the causes of the problem (if it is a problem) - have been investigated.

I don’t know what killed my fish but judging by how fast they died and a few fish having symptoms I’m guessing it was velvet. I added two new fish without quarantining them(yes I’ve learned my mistake and will always quarantine in the future) 3 days later two fish were dead each day after that a different fish died 13 fish died in less then a week, 5 I’d had for years none of my inverts died and my corals are strong and healthy, one yellow watchman goby survived
I worry the algae keeps coming back because the rocks are holding in phosphates or something since they were once live rock before I bleached them.
I don’t know for sure what killed my fish that’s another reason I’m wanting to start over
Tank is 4-5 month old

 

[MnFish1]

At this point I’m more concerned about my coral and not jeopardizing it’s health and growth, if the algae continues I know it’ll cause issues with my corals but if I move them I might jeopardize them also by starting over ‍
I think I’ll wait a bit longer to see if the algae gets worse, currently it’s only turned my rocks green and the algae on the inverts came off easily.
I just know how fast algae especially gha can take over.
My tank is only 4-5 months old

The picture will help. One thing I do (which I forgot to mention) - if an algae is starting to take over on a rock is to simply turn it over. so the opposite side is now lit.

 

[polyppal]

No your missing the point of it being a new tank. In which nutrients run wild while trying to grow beneficial bacteria, and general biodiversity. GHA is a normal part of owning a reef tank, you can't stop it from happening. You can limit it's stronghold, but it always happens with dry rock.

You want to control nutrients in a way thats not normal, and usually end up with new reefers driving them to 0. New reefers don't understand how nutrients effects the biodiversity in the tank, and typically to get rid of the algae, they drive them to 0 with unconventional methods.

Nothing beats back algae but biodiversity and time. Specially with a dry rock start.

+1 This ^

Prob the #1 cause for failure in this hobby is being impatient. Set it up for a few months with just a few fish and don't even think about corals until this natural balance is evident.

 

[Lyss]

At this point I’m more concerned about my coral and not jeopardizing it’s health and growth, if the algae continues I know it’ll cause issues with my corals but if I move them I might jeopardize them also by starting over ‍
I think I’ll wait a bit longer to see if the algae gets worse, currently it’s only turned my rocks green and the algae on the inverts came off easily.
I just know how fast algae especially gha can take over.
My tank is only 4-5 months old

This is why a picture will be worth 1000 words. My rocks are green, but they’re also COVERED in coralline that spreads more every day. The green came first, then the coralline started. This is natural.

I also have a few trochus snails with shells that are magnets for hair algae and detritus. I just let it be and maybe once a month take them out and take a toothbrush to their shells. No harm done, and no big deal. Like others have said, algae is natural, and there are ways to keep it in check. I carbon dose as well, but am very careful with that as has been discussed in earlier posts.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

I upgraded to this tank, I already had fish and corals, I did start over with new rock and sand and a new cycle in hopes of starting out with good parameters.
I’ll have a picture soon, it’s been so long since I started a new tank I don’t remember going through a green phase. I also worried it’s because there’s no fish to help clean the tank.
I should have more then enough of a cuc to do the job.
My nitrates and phosphates are both very high
Nitrate was 36.7 phosphates were 0.15 alk 7.7, calcium 447

 

[Hilltopreef90]

I upgraded to this tank, I already had fish and corals, I did start over with new rock and sand and a new cycle in hopes of starting out with good parameters.
I’ll have a picture soon, it’s been so long since I started a new tank I don’t remember going through a green phase. I also worried it’s because there’s no fish to help clean the tank.
I should have more then enough of a cuc to do the job.
My nitrates and phosphates are both very high
Nitrate was 36.7 phosphates were 0.15 alk 7.7, calcium 447

I need to add that in the past I’ve not been diligent about my tank maintenance and water changes so I understand why I ended up with algae taking over my tank
This time I’ve done everything I know to do right and I’m consistent with my water changes and keeping everything clean, my algae isn’t out of control but seeing it suddenly growing on my snails and the rocks being covered in green Caused me to worry it’s the beginning of something worse. I already lost all but one fish I don’t want to lose my corals too

 

[Tamberav]

Throwing away your rock and sand and starting over with what is just more dry rock that is painted will not fix your problems.

You don’t have any fish so getting nutrients down (butshould be easy as you don’t have tons of mouths to feed.

Do water changes and suck up any debris. Don’t feed the tank any powdered foods or that nonsense. The corals can eat when you stir the sand bed. Change the socks diligently and so on.

Expect it to take time to correct and it be fixed overnight. Unless you have a nano… nanos are easy to fix

You do not need fish to eat algae. A suitable cuc can do it all. I didn’t have any algae eating fish for the first 10 years in this hobby and now that I have one… I wouldn’t say my yellow tang is that useful.

If you need more cuc… then get more cuc… trochus snails are fantastic.. female emerald crabs can tackle more difficult algae. Conches like to vacuum the sand and lower rocks.

Algae and pests and problems are a normal part of the hobby. You need to learn how to defeat them. Starting over does nothing but reset your clock on what should be a mature tank and you don’t learn anything. My rock has been with me over 10 years now. I consider it the most valuable thing in my tank.