something is getting worse

[scott11106]

I had flat worms and used flatworm exit 2 days ago, see link here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-is-this-some-sort-of-algae-or-critters.521196/

well everything seemed to go great and now i noticed one fish jumped from tank to his death and the rest are all hiding. also i saw my pbt has one eye cloudy and nobody eating. Also the corals are closing up or at least not looking happy.

I had about 30 gallons of saltwtaer heated and mixed so i did a quick water change and i am now mixing another 50 gallons of fresh salt water. i also changed out the filter socks and just got rid of the carbon in both of the reactors and replaced one with carbon and one with gfo and not sure if i should put them online.

also saw that there was a red algae starting to cover sand...

any advise

 

[Unskilled Reefer]

What are your water parameters?

 

[scott11106]

temp 78
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
alk 7.7 (normally 8.4)
calcium 476
orp 377 (normally 440ish)
phosphates 0

 

[garbled]

Run carbon. Crank the skimmer up. Aim powerheads at the surface. Those things are all dying in the tank, and that might be causing chaos. Might have overdosed a bit too, which is why I suggest heavy carbon.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Carbons yes, water change and Flatworm exit is strong although effective.
When treating, keep in mind USEABLE gallons .
What is useable gallons................................ if you have lets say a 100 gallon tank. You will likely have live rock and other specimens in the tank , which reduces water volume. In essence you would have about 80 useable gallons and will there fore treat for 80 gallons, not 100

 

[scott11106]

thanks, I did do that and I ran carbon and gfo, did another 40-gallon water change. The skimmer is still pulling orange stuff so I think you were correct as I think it is all the worms in the sand bed and deep in the rock that are the problem as i don't see them dead or alive

 

[scott11106]

good news is that some of the fish are starting to come out and the pbt eyes are back to normal. bad news is i see at least 3 sps corals that have bleached out which makes me sad but i kind of expected some carnage of some sort. also so far the only fish i lost was the one that jumped from tank (most likely due to the water getting toxic) thing that sucks is that it was my favorite fish and most expensive (fairy wrasse). All in All i guess i will call it a success but i will DEFINITELY QT everything that goes in my tank and dip EVERYTHING.

 

[ScottB]

Sorry for your losses but glad to hear you seem to be turning the corner. A couple suggestions once you are comfortably beyond this episode?

1) For a 300g system, dipping and QT is crucial. I am a Bayer believer. Also get a powerful and lighted magnifying glass to look for pest eggs. They survive every dip.
2) Yellow Coris wrasse. I keep two, with a Melanurus in reserve (frag tank).
3) Keep some nitrate and phosphate in your tank; at least 3 and .03 respectively IMO. I manage this by APEX scheduling my skimmer and GFO reactor, but removing the skim cup every other day, and or shutting flow to the reactor manually or via smart plugs works as well. My acros go pale in stripped water.

 

[goodefx]

Sorry for your losses but glad to hear you seem to be turning the corner. A couple suggestions once you are comfortably beyond this episode?

1) For a 300g system, dipping and QT is crucial. I am a Bayer believer. Also get a powerful and lighted magnifying glass to look for pest eggs. They survive every dip.
2) Yellow Coris wrasse. I keep two, with a Melanurus in reserve (frag tank).
3) Keep some nitrate and phosphate in your tank; at least 3 and .03 respectively IMO. I manage this by APEX scheduling my skimmer and GFO reactor, but removing the skim cup every other day, and or shutting flow to the reactor manually or via smart plugs works as well. My acros go pale in stripped water.

Carbon is the solution NOT more GFO! When I ran f.exit, I replaced my GFO reactor with carbon...so I ran two carbon reactors. Your fighting ammonia (die off) not phosphates, my 2 cents.

 

[scott11106]

Sorry for your losses but glad to hear you seem to be turning the corner. A couple suggestions once you are comfortably beyond this episode?

1) For a 300g system, dipping and QT is crucial. I am a Bayer believer. Also get a powerful and lighted magnifying glass to look for pest eggs. They survive every dip.
2) Yellow Coris wrasse. I keep two, with a Melanurus in reserve (frag tank).
3) Keep some nitrate and phosphate in your tank; at least 3 and .03 respectively IMO. I manage this by APEX scheduling my skimmer and GFO reactor, but removing the skim cup every other day, and or shutting flow to the reactor manually or via smart plugs works as well. My acros go pale in stripped water.

that is some great advice, before the episode, everything was great except my corals did not pop and i bet that is because 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate so i think i will definitely do that !!
what is the best way to do that? not run gfo or carbon and maybe lower my water changes from 3 gal per day to 1-2 gal per day? thoughts?
also i have 1 yellow wrasse now and will definitely put one in my coral QT tank

 

[goodefx]

that is some great advice, before the episode, everything was great except my corals did not pop and i bet that is because 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate so i think i will definitely do that !!
what is the best way to do that? not run gfo or carbon and maybe lower my water changes from 3 gal per day to 1-2 gal per day? thoughts?
also i have 1 yellow wrasse now and will definitely put one in my coral QT tank

Pull your GFO, keep the carbon or change it. I dont run GFO unless I have a PO4 problem and I dont think many reefers do now days cause it's so easy to strip your PO4 to dangerous levels.

Do one large water change, let your stuff settle for about a week, test and go from there.

But zero on both nitrates and phosphates will make your corals suffer.

 

[Beefyreefy]

There was a flatworm article posted here recently that suggested the possibility of flatworms releasing a toxin into the water column when killed. There was an aquarist that was sickened after placing his hands in the water after killing flatworms with FWE. It was felt that the reaction was more likely from the worms than the product. Just a thought. I'm sure a quick search would locate the article.

 

[goodefx]

There was a flatworm article posted here recently that suggested the possibility of flatworms releasing a toxin into the water column when killed. There was an aquarist that was sickened after placing his hands in the water after killing flatworms with FWE. It was felt that the reaction was more likely from the worms than the product. Just a thought. I'm sure a quick search would locate the article.

Believe me, I read all those articles, but I think people are getting confused with this "toxicity" and just the ammonia from die off. I have to believe it's more the ammonia spiking, therefore I used bacteria 7 to prevent the spike. I had no problems but also I had to dose again two weeks later to get rid of them all.

I keep hearing people go to the ER from sticking their hands in the tank, touching zoa's, certain corals or chemicals, but too many variables to be certain. If you question something, just have your wife do it first! Lol

 

[scott11106]

Believe me, I read all those articles, but I think people are getting confused with this "toxicity" and just the ammonia from die off. I have to believe it's more the ammonia spiking, therefore I used bacteria 7 to prevent the spike. I had no problems but also I had to dose again two weeks later to get rid of them all.

I keep hearing people go to the ER from sticking their hands in the tank, touching zoa's, certain corals or chemicals, but too many variables to be certain. If you question something, just have your wife do it first! Lol

lol, that is funny...
i did test for ammonia during the entire process and did not see a spike so not sure on that but definitely was expecting one

 

[jtl]

I have not used FWE for several years (thankfully) but when I did I used about 1/2 the recommended amount, scooped out as my dead ones as I could, did a large w/c and repeated the process. Took care of the problem and I did not suffer any losses. The comment made about knowing your actual water volume is really and excellent point. Too many refers likely overestimate the amount of water in their system. I have a 100 gal dt and and a 50g sump. I carefully measured and calculated that I have no more than net 110 gallons and I probably have less live rock and sand then similar systems.

 

[scott11106]

I have not used FWE for several years (thankfully) but when I did I used about 1/2 the recommended amount, scooped out as my dead ones as I could, did a large w/c and repeated the process. Took care of the problem and I did not suffer any losses. The comment made about knowing your actual water volume is really and excellent point. Too many refers likely overestimate the amount of water in their system. I have a 100 gal dt and and a 50g sump. I carefully measured and calculated that I have no more than net 110 gallons and I probably have less live rock and sand then similar systems.

yes i took that into account and i feel like i was well under the actual amount but the second dose might have been too quick and maybe should have waited a week or so.

 

[scott11106]

As an update, all things seem like they are returning to normal, had a large PH spike up to 8.42 and i assume this was due to my FWE but i added a little vinegar and that started the progression back down to normal. All fish are out and healthy and the casualty for fish still stands at (1) and that was due to leaping from the tank. The casualty list for coral is a bit more but not horrible, i lost 4 coral frags (all but 2-3 of my corals i still consider frags as the tank is only 7 months old and corals are growing but just starting to grow well) I do however have multiple other corals that are discolored and not happy but not bleeched out so we will see.

to conclude, i think the tank is recovering and no flat worms can be seen anywhere so that is a success. going to get another small frag QT tank to dedicate to corals and inverts this week.