Sps help pleaseplease

[mcarroll]

FLOW!!
One thing I forgot to mention is that flow is the other part of the light-food-flow equation.

More flow and more food (or even nitrates) can help alleviate a problem with lighting.

If he's still laying flat on that plate of rock, that's almost sure to be a low-flow situation. Stick his plug into a frag rack, or a crevice so he's at least upright.

He'll be much more able to breath if he's at least roughly upright. Protruding out into a strong flow somewhere in the tank is the idea. :)

And of course, move him elsewhere in the tank tomorrow if you're findings withe the lux meter prove to be very different than the originator's. (They may or may not.)

ABOUT YOUR LIGHT
While we wait for an actual reading from your tank, I can tell you that 300 PAR is about 13,000 lux.

About what I run my dim tank at....SPS do well, but it's on the low end of their range. It's conceivable that if you took my SPS from that tank and plopped them into my (or maybe yours) 50,000 lux tank, they might bleach.

Frags are amazingly adaptable, but if there were other stressors on top of light and nutrients (and being fragged!)....like flow, overheating, acclimation stress, etc....

Corals and fish and people are all the same in at least one way....all stresses are cumulative.

Let us know how tomorrow goes - my fingers are crossed!

HOMEWORK ;)
All the stresses mentioned are ON TOP of the daily stresses of being a coral.....check out some of the attached PDF's for an idea what a coral is up against day to day. :)

 

[Sabellafella]

FLOW!!
One thing I forgot to mention is that flow is the other part of the light-food-flow equation.

More flow and more food (or even nitrates) can help alleviate a problem with lighting.

If he's still laying flat on that plate of rock, that's almost sure to be a low-flow situation. Stick his plug into a frag rack, or a crevice so he's at least upright.

He'll be much more able to breath if he's at least roughly upright. Protruding out into a strong flow somewhere in the tank is the idea. :)

And of course, move him elsewhere in the tank tomorrow if you're findings withe the lux meter prove to be very different than the originator's. (They may or may not.)

ABOUT YOUR LIGHT
While we wait for an actual reading from your tank, I can tell you that 300 PAR is about 13,000 lux.

About what I run my dim tank at....SPS do well, but it's on the low end of their range. It's conceivable that if you took my SPS from that tank and plopped them into my (or maybe yours) 50,000 lux tank, they might bleach.

Frags are amazingly adaptable, but if there were other stressors on top of light and nutrients (and being fragged!)....like flow, overheating, acclimation stress, etc....

Corals and fish and people are all the same in at least one way....all stresses are cumulative.

Let us know how tomorrow goes - my fingers are crossed!

HOMEWORK ;)
All the stresses mentioned are ON TOP of the daily stresses of being a coral.....check out some of the attached PDF's for an idea what a coral is up against day to day. :)

Dude these are sweeet articles, thanks for sharing!!!

 

[Lonny]

Wow I got some homework to do! Lol thank you very much for this! I'll get to reading tho I think the coral is a goner I'll move him up. I moved him down to the sand (upright this time lol) thinking less light. I'll move him up into good flow and see. I was looking at a Milwaukee lux meter with a water proof probe for $75. Not sure how much money my curiosity is worth but it seems like a decent price for something that goes in the tank. I'll read the links, again thank you. This isn't your problem and your taking the time to help me out and that's pretty cool! Don't know where I'd be without this forum!

 

[Lonny]

ok moved the white dragon (Brandon have it a new name!) Lots of flow here.

 

[ranjan0120]

Red dragon is a smooth skinned acro. As far as I know, smooth skinned acros don't take prophylactic dips (coral rx, revive etc) very well. It might recover. Good Luck.

 

[Lonny]

Thanks good info

 

[Battlecorals]

Red dragon is a smooth skinned acro. As far as I know, smooth skinned acros don't take prophylactic dips (coral rx, revive etc) very well. It might recover. Good Luck.

My thoughts exactly. Not even so much smooth skin specific. Coral rx is extremely harsh on all sps at dosages strong enough to kill flatworms.

This is more than likely what caused the overnight crash.

If there's any life at all, keep as low as possible and out of direct light till it shows any sign of a rebound

 

[hejjo]

Ask your lfs if they have a par meter u can rent.

I asked mine and they said "here bring it back by the end of the day and we won't charge ya"

 

[Lonny]

My thoughts exactly. Not even so much smooth skin specific. Coral rx is extremely harsh on all sps at dosages strong enough to kill flatworms.

This is more than likely what caused the overnight crash.

If there's any life at all, keep as low as possible and out of direct light till it shows any sign of a rebound

It's so hard to tell if there is life left. But in on a mission now! How cool it would be to bring back an acro from the brink! Thank you very much for the advice! And yes I gave it a ten minute soak in coral rx! Just didn't know

 

[Lonny]

Red dragon is a smooth skinned acro. As far as I know, smooth skinned acros don't take prophylactic dips (coral rx, revive etc) very well. It might recover. Good Luck.

Thanks to you as well!

 

[Lonny]

Put it down low in some shade. Time will tell. This has gone from a potential loss to a very good learning experience! Even if it's a goner, I'm learning a ton about acro's and still a win in my book! I'm having success with the rest of my sps, but it's blind luck and just following general guidelines. So hopelessly hooked on this hobby!

 

[donnievaz]

I've seen some SPS bleach overnight from the tank reaching 86 degrees so I would not be surprised at all if that's what happened in your car. The dip was probably the nail in the coffin.

 

[Lonny]

Agreed, two wrongs did not make a right. All my sps except the dragon came from a friend I trust so I didn't dip them. Nor did they sit in a cooler in a hot car for 30 min.

 

[mcarroll]

I was looking at a Milwaukee lux meter with a water proof probe for $75.

That's a fine meter, but I'd start out with the $15 unit and see how things go. That's plenty for me....haven't found a need to measure below the surface yet. Of course, your mileage may vary. ;)

Put it down low in some shade.

Usually for a frag, lighting changes don't seem to be as significant as other factors...at this point you have a large pile of other factors: Toxic Dip and Overheating probably trump any issue with lighting.

:(

That said, if lighting were contributing, too little is not better than too much. (And remember, all these stresses compound on one another.)

Corals have an incredible tolerance for lighting changes - see that article on "lensing" - but beyond certain base and ceiling levels which vary with species, light, flow and nutrients, they can't tolerate the changes in O2 metabolism.

 

[Lonny]

That's a fine meter, but I'd start out with the $15 unit and see how things go. That's plenty for me....haven't found a need to measure below the surface yet. Of course, your mileage may vary. ;)



Usually for a frag, lighting changes don't seem to be as significant as other factors...at this point you have a large pile of other factors: Toxic Dip and Overheating probably trump any issue with lighting.

:(

That said, if lighting were contributing, too little is not better than too much. (And remember, all these stresses compound on one another.)

Corals have an incredible tolerance for lighting changes - see that article on "lensing" - but beyond certain base and ceiling levels which vary with species, light, flow and nutrients, they can't tolerate the changes in O2 metabolism.

Haha, still reading the one on nutrients and co2. As with most of the stuff I've read, I'll have to read it twice to get an understanding. Marine biologists really need to learn to speak in laymen terms as well lol. Good to know, so is it not that crucial that the probe isn't in the water?

 

[Russ265]

lot of great ideas here.

imo your tank is pretty pale during full lighting. this tells me your nutrients are rather low.

that (lighting) is not what killed your red dragon though.

@Sabellafella made a good call about the heat being a factor. Usually my sps bleach before putting them in the tank. Like the damage is already done. If the temp in the tank is 76-82 then usually a bleach event is forgone ime.

the fact you can just place the frag on it's side like that and it not get blown around would worry me in an sps tank. i think @mcarroll was dead on recommending higher flow. Im not sure that would rtn a frag over night though. ive had mp40s shut down and frags been fine for a day on returns alone.

@ranjan0120 also made a good point about coralrx being rough. especially on a red dragon. those guys are touchy. if he discolored within 30 minutes, you got your issue. im not so sure it would have killed him though because sps are quick to go downhill and discolor. if you had an hour to observe him in your display and nothing happened im not so sure coralrx did it.

ive only had this happen when my tanks are super new and didnt have nutrients in the column. eg: not enough doc, trates, etc. This may be why red dragons get a "sensitive" rating when a lot of us have no issues with them. your rock looks pretty clean (like fresh off the assembly line clean) to me so im gonna go with @Diesel on this. too new a tank without the established biochain and nutrients

 

[jvb89]

My thoughts exactly. Not even so much smooth skin specific. Coral rx is extremely harsh on all sps at dosages strong enough to kill flatworms.

This is more than likely what caused the overnight crash.

If there's any life at all, keep as low as possible and out of direct light till it shows any sign of a rebound

+1 I've tried multiple dips with the recommended dose and every time the red dragon rtns like this. No dip and it was great

 

[Lonny]

I have an easy to care for white dragon for sale! This bad boy is one that needs almost no attention at all! In fact, you don't even need water!!!! Just a light dusting now and then. First $1200 takes this one of a kind coral!!!

 

[mcarroll]

:(

 

[Lonny]

Ya, it's a bummer but no sense crying over spilt milk. On the plus side I learned a lot and got a ton of valuable info, so not a total loss! Thanks everyone!