Start dosing Kalk?

[Saluki2003]

I have an IM Nuvo 20 that finished cycling about a month ago. Right now there are 2 clowns and I’ve just added my first coral...a frogspawn frag with 3 heads.

My plans are a Euphyllia dominated tank with 1 RBTA for the clowns.

I just started using Red Sea Coral Pro salt on my last water change and I’ve just started testing PO4 and Alk. We also just brought home our first child (a baby boy) so I missed a week of water changes and testing.

Here are my last 2 tests, each was done before a 20% WC and I’m wondering if I need to start dosing to raise my ALK? Or should I test again in a couple days after today’s 20% WC?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You do not "need" to raise it, but if you want to, dosing a small amount of limewater (kalkwasser) and seeing the effect is fine. So would a two part or other method of alk and calcium dosing.

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

I have an IM Nuvo 20 that finished cycling about a month ago. Right now there are 2 clowns and I’ve just added my first coral...a frogspawn frag with 3 heads.

My plans are a Euphyllia dominated tank with 1 RBTA for the clowns.

I just started using Red Sea Coral Pro salt on my last water change and I’ve just started testing PO4 and Alk. We also just brought home our first child (a baby boy) so I missed a week of water changes and testing.

Here are my last 2 tests, each was done before a 20% WC and I’m wondering if I need to start dosing to raise my ALK? Or should I test again in a couple days after today’s 20% WC?

What app or program is that?

 

[Saluki2003]

You do not "need" to raise it, but if you want to, dosing a small amount of limewater (kalkwasser) and seeing the effect is fine. So would a two part or other method of alk and calcium dosing.

Re-tested this morning after yesterday’s WC...results posted below. I think today or yesterday’s PO4 were off a bit...not sure about it raising after a 20% water change.

Alk went from 127ppm to 119ppm after missing a weekly water change. And back to 136ppm the day after a change. I’ll test again before and after next weeks water change to see where we’re at.

What ALK level would you recommend for a Euphyllia dominant tank?

Do you see a need to test Ca and Mg as well if I’m not planning on adding any SPS corals?

 

[Saluki2003]

What app or program is that?

Pocket Marine....I just started using it yesterday. So far I like it.

 

[HuduVudu]

Your alk is moving way to much, and is dropping IMO too much. I think dosing a small amount of Kalk now would be helpful to stabilize your alk. Those swings are hard on your tank especially coral.

My 2 cents.

 

[Saluki2003]

Your alk is moving way to much, and is dropping IMO too much. I think dosing a small amount of Kalk now would be helpful to stabilize your alk. Those swings are hard on your tank especially coral.

My 2 cents.

Would you recommend dosing through my ATO? How much would a small amount be?

 

[HuduVudu]

Honestly I wouldn't recommend through your ATO, though many have successfully done this. There problems that come with doing this method that need to be dealt with, and IMO aren't worth the trouble.

For me a better way is with a doser and saturated solution. If you really want to go all out a kalk stirrer and doser are an ideal combination. This is expensive, but if you continue doing coral this IMO is a good investment. Using just a doser and your own saturated solution is a nice partial alternative and is less expensive.

For a tank your size you might start with 10ml a day and see how that works. DO NOT move the amounts fast in either direction. Watch for rubberbanding now matter which solution you choose. It will take a bit for you to get a feel for what is happening, but this is a good start.

 

[Saluki2003]

Honestly I wouldn't recommend through your ATO, though many have successfully done this. There problems that come with doing this method that need to be dealt with, and IMO aren't worth the trouble.

For me a better way is with a doser and saturated solution. If you really want to go all out a kalk stirrer and doser are an ideal combination. This is expensive, but if you continue doing coral this IMO is a good investment. Using just a doser and your own saturated solution is a nice partial alternative and is less expensive.

For a tank your size you might start with 10ml a day and see how that works. DO NOT move the amounts fast in either direction. Watch for rubberbanding now matter which solution you choose. It will take a bit for you to get a feel for what is happening, but this is a good start.

The daily part is tough for me...I’m a firefighter and away from home for several days at a time sometimes. The wife is fine with feeding the fish but not sure about getting her to start dosing the tank daily. I’ll have to look into another doser and reservoir.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hmmm I don't think you get how this works. I will try to explain better.

You can mix enough saturated solution for say a week. It will be just like the resivior for your top off. Then you use a doser to deliver the solution over a period of time. It is very set and forget and will work very well for your job situation.

After you dial in the doser to the amount in your tank then all you do is fill up the saturated solution when it depletes.

 

[Saluki2003]

Hmmm I don't think you get how this works. I will try to explain better.

You can mix enough saturated solution for say a week. It will be just like the resivior for your top off. Then you use a doser to deliver the solution over a period of time. It is very set and forget and will work very well for your job situation.

After you dial in the doser to the amount in your tank then all you do is fill up the saturated solution when it depletes.

Ok...I’ll have to look into getting a doser...do you have one you recommend for a nano tank?

 

[HuduVudu]

Ok...I’ll have to look into getting a doser...do you have one you recommend for a nano tank?

It depends on your price range.

I can't say would recomend what I use because it would be overkill for what you are trying to do.

Perhaps the BRS doser might be a good choice here. I can't speak to the reliability but it is a single doser and is relative cheap.

BRS 2 Part Doser - 1.1 mL per minute

Why does BRS recommend this? The BRS 1.1 mL dosing pump is a very cost-effective yet long lasting stand-alone dosing pump perfect for trace elements and 2 part. By hooking the pump up to a simple timer or aquarium controller they can be one of the most inexpensive ways to get into an automated...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[blasterman]

If you dose kalk you will eventually be in a position where you have high calcium since kalk also adds calcium. We get a dozen posts like this a week, and it ends up in the same problem zone. People use a two part or kalk to correct low alk and little no calcium uptake, and expect calcium to be magically consumed. So they end up with calcium at 600 and scratching their head.

Kalk adds both alk and calcium. I repeat: Kalk adds both alk and calcium. It takes a *LOT* of Euphyllia to consume calcium to the point you need to dose both calcium and alk.

Euphyllia don't use much calcium. You would need a *LOT* of Euphyllia to need two part dosing.

I strongly suggest just dosing alk in the form of baking soda and doing water changes periodically.

.

 

[Saluki2003]

If you dose kalk you will eventually be in a position where you have high calcium since kalk also adds calcium. We get a dozen posts like this a week, and it ends up in the same problem zone. People use a two part or kalk to correct low alk and little no calcium uptake, and expect calcium to be magically consumed. So they end up with calcium at 600 and scratching their head.

Kalk adds both alk and calcium. I repeat: Kalk adds both alk and calcium. It takes a *LOT* of Euphyllia to consume calcium to the point you need to dose both calcium and alk.

Euphyllia don't use much calcium. You would need a *LOT* of Euphyllia to need two part dosing.

I strongly suggest just dosing alk in the form of baking soda and doing water changes periodically.

.

Ok...since I don’t have much livestock in my tank yet, I’ll just keep up with regular water changes and testing to determine if I’ll need to start dosing or not. And I’ll have to look into dosing with just baking soda.

I feel like I’m on info overload...every time I think I’m getting a grasp on what I should be doing I find out something new! Haha

 

[HuduVudu]

And I’ll have to look into dosing with just baking soda.

Be warned if you are using just baking soda you are also adding sodium to your tank of which there is nothing that will consume it. Also to test for sodium requires an ICP test. To be fair dosing very low levels against the large sodium ppm values is said to be of no consequence. Maybe. The question then becomes does it ever and at what point will that be. This can be also corrected to a point with water changes. There will be argument in the grey area, but for me I don't mux with the sodium chloride levels.

There are no perfect solutions as you are coming to find out.

Water changes depending on your consumption and your salt choice can move the alk around a lot, this is not an ideal situation. Smaller more regular water changes are more ideal for this type of situation, but again the caveat is that other things that you are doing with the water changes may be impacted. For example nitrate export.

Sorry about the overload.

EDIT: I forgot your tank is 20. You have chosen a difficult size to deal with stony corals. This is going to make you have to work harder, because the smaller water volume can change fast. Take it slow and think about and research before you move. Small water volumes can be incredibly unforgiving.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Re-tested this morning after yesterday’s WC...results posted below. I think today or yesterday’s PO4 were off a bit...not sure about it raising after a 20% water change.

Alk went from 127ppm to 119ppm after missing a weekly water change. And back to 136ppm the day after a change. I’ll test again before and after next weeks water change to see where we’re at.

What ALK level would you recommend for a Euphyllia dominant tank?

Do you see a need to test Ca and Mg as well if I’m not planning on adding any SPS corals?

IMO, it is fine to target anywhere between 125 and 200 ppm alkalinity. It will take less supplement to keep a lower alkalinity. The corals may or may not grow faster at higher alk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The daily part is tough for me...I’m a firefighter and away from home for several days at a time sometimes. The wife is fine with feeding the fish but not sure about getting her to start dosing the tank daily. I’ll have to look into another doser and reservoir.

Your demand looks to be quite low. I don't think a doser is needed, nor daily dosing if that is difficult.

That said, an automated doser will reduce your work load.

 

[Saluki2003]

IMO, it is fine to target anywhere between 125 and 200 ppm alkalinity. It will take less supplement to keep a lower alkalinity. The corals may or may not grow faster at higher alk.

I am fine with not growing fast...in a 20g they will quickly be too big if the growth is very rapid.

 

[Saluki2003]

I also just bought the Hanna Ca tester and here’s a quick update on today’s weekly testing before the WC. I’m still using the API test for Nitrates and the color was very close to zero but there’s no way for me to really tell what I’m actually at.

 

[biophilia]

If you dose kalk you will eventually be in a position where you have high calcium since kalk also adds calcium. We get a dozen posts like this a week, and it ends up in the same problem zone. People use a two part or kalk to correct low alk and little no calcium uptake, and expect calcium to be magically consumed. So they end up with calcium at 600 and scratching their head.

Kalk adds both alk and calcium. I repeat: Kalk adds both alk and calcium. It takes a *LOT* of Euphyllia to consume calcium to the point you need to dose both calcium and alk.

Euphyllia don't use much calcium. You would need a *LOT* of Euphyllia to need two part dosing.

I strongly suggest just dosing alk in the form of baking soda and doing water changes periodically.

.

This is untrue. Hexacorals like Euphyllia will generally utilize calcium and alkalinity in a balanced fashion. The coral animal builds it's skeleton out of calcium carbonate and calcium is a major component of that.

I'm not sure where the above misconception started, but if people are ending up with unbalanced alkalinity consumption it's probably because they have a lot of coralline growth happening. Sometimes coralline algae, especially in seawater with depressed pH, takes the form of high-magnesium calcite which incorporates a substantial portion of its mass from magnesium rather than calcium. This will lead to excess alk consumption over calcium, but coral skeletal growth really won't.

Unless someone has a specific issue maintaining balanced calcium and alk, they should always dose it in balanced form. People have been using kalkwasser to maintain the two for decades.