Starting a tank.

[WVNed]

I only started 1 tank 12 years ago with a piece of shrimp. All my other tanks were transfers from that tank. Put them up and go. They had live stuff from day 1. I have buffed my tank transfers with biologicals and know they work well, if they are still alive.
I saw a bottle of Dr Tims on the shelf at the LFS that was 6 months past the use by date. I wouldn't be surprised if that would do nothing.

I have read many people are starting tanks with pure ammonia now. People seem to have a problem with "dirty" things now.

Bacteria build enzymatic pathways to process what they are exposed to. They are very efficient that way.

When I put the dead shrimp in the tank I added proteins, lipids and all the stuff in a dead piece of tissue to the tank and the bacteria started processing that. It emulated what the bacteria would be doing in my tank. What I wanted it to do. Yes fish excrete ammonia but that isn't the only thing the biofilter has to process. The bacteria made the ammonia that they then processed also. All part of what was supposed to happen.

Ammonia is a very simple chemical. I am sure the bacteria process it and it will make our test kits happy. I always considered the ammonia processing to be simply a telltale that the biofilter existed.
Not the whole point of it.


Is starting a tank with ammonia making a biofilter capable of supporting a tank in the early stages?

 

[NY_Caveman]

I only started 1 tank 12 years ago with a piece of shrimp. All my other tanks were transfers from that tank. Put them up and go. They had live stuff from day 1. I have buffed my tank transfers with biologicals and know they work well, if they are still alive.
I saw a bottle of Dr Tims on the shelf at the LFS that was 6 moths past the use by date. I wouldn't be surprised if that would do nothing.

I have read many people are starting tanks with pure ammonia now. People seem to have a problem with "dirty" things now.

Bacteria build enzymatic pathways to process what they are exposed to. They are very efficient that way.

When I put the dead shrimp in the tank I added proteins, lipids and all the stuff in a dead piece of tissue to the tank and the bacteria started processing that. It emulated what the bacteria would be doing in my tank. What I wanted it to do. Yes fish excrete ammonia but that isn't the only thing the biofilter has to process. The bacteria made the ammonia that they then processed also. All part of what was supposed to happen.

Ammonia is a very simple chemical. I am sure the bacteria process it and it will make our test kits happy. I always considered the ammonia processing to be simply a telltale that the biofilter existed.
Not the whole point of it.


Is starting a tank with ammonia making a biofilter capable of supporting a tank in the early stages?

It is a common, measurable practice that seems to work well. That said, an experiment comparing bacteria type and development between the two methods would be very interesting. Perhaps it has been done?

 

[WVNed]

Being at home most of the time I read a lot of threads here and notice patterns. One I noticed is lots of new tanks kill the first fish placed in them. Quite often water testing shows stuff that shouldn't be in a cycled tank like ammonia and nitrites. They seem to appear after the livestock is added.

Inexperience. Perhaps.
I saw a comment about cycling a tank with a live fish being cruel.
It occurred that may be exactly what people are doing now by starting a tank with pure ammonia. The bacteria may be there
but they have been eating

And are now seeing

They have the ability to digest these but maybe haven't created the pathways to because they haven't been used yet when the livestock gets put in the tank and fed.
When I started everyone was using shrimp pieces and it worked well.
Just a random thought early in the morning.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The ability to consume organics will grow with the tank as those chemicals become available. It is not necessary for it to be established right off the bat because they are not toxic the way ammonia is. [emoji3]

 

[WVNed]

I suppose the last thing I hoped for when I started keeping fish was for my tank to be sterile.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why would it be sterile? It seems you are suggesting that a month or two after adding fish, that starting the tank with ammonia results in something different than if you started with a dead shrimp. I don’t think that is likely. Bacteria will grow in the tank as soon as there are organics to eat, just as they did when you added a shrimp.

 

[WVNed]

A tank started with dry rock, dry sand, ammonia and a bottle of bacteria is rather sterile compared to one started with live rock.

I guess what I am questioning is if bacteria selected to stay alive while on the shelf in a bottle and eat pure ammonia quickly are the best ones to create a biofilter with.
I have assumed ( no I haven't looked) that these are proprietary strains selected for these characteristics.
In comparison to ones that come in live rock and are fed a gamut of organic compounds.