Still having Ammonia Issues

[DSC reef]

This is unrelated to the thread but is it bad to leave your skimmer run 24/7? I don't ever turn mine off, but should I be?

I prefer 24/7 It's not bad at all.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is unrelated to the thread but is it bad to leave your skimmer run 24/7? I don't ever turn mine off, but should I be?

I wouldn't shut it off at night. Night is when you most want the aeration to keep up O2 and minimize a low pH minimum.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I prefer 24/7 It's not bad at all.

I wouldn't shut it off at night. Night is when you most want the aeration to keep up O2 and minimize a low pH minimum.

Thank you :):)

 

[zuri]

Is that an observation of yours or something you read?

no used to leave it off at night aswell kept having phantom ammonia on badges (so now I don't use them or trust them). But then I turned it off for the night and tested it the day after BINGO found my ammonia source
Hob don't work like traditional in-sump skimmers that have a filter sock blocking heavy debris that a skimmer can't get up the tube .
In a hob that heavy stuffs goes right to the bottom and collects some nasty stuff. two ways of getting it clean simple way is to take it out one amonth or just take a small siphon.
anyway this was my XP and I was hoping I could help someone else out
simple way is to test the skimmer just prior to turning it on

 

[brandon429]

Someone take some skimmate, hydrate it a bit, and post it's ammonia reading

It's important to test a range, immediate sample vs 48 hours bubbled

If it's APi the standard equation is .25=0 of course


Post a diluted reading then let the sample sit for 48 hours and keep it bubbled, say in a jar or something. Replicate the marine environment we're testing the claim in/

This is much less dilution than in a reef tank, do don't overdo the sample. Reduce some down to lightwater then post current / 48 we'll get an ammonia profile worst case scenario.

Tanks where skimmers begin to fail due to nonadjustment or something came off line during vacation aren't associated with sustained ammonia spikes, the trending is worth considering imo.

We don't find tanks registering ammonia when they modulate skimming, my tank hasn't used one ever? I guess with a large fish bioload perhaps, post

Try to find other threads on it just to check trends, this is where I like Google.

Is neat to see trending in what we see in our tanks, I really like it for that aspect

Should show a strong tie in search returns between skimmer efficiency and free ammonia


Currently I wouldn't vote that you had free ammonia. test drift

We could trace out the issue if you have a thread you made on it at the time. If there is no thread, we should be able to literally model it in portion real quick to see.

100% good idea we should make this thread about verifying ammonia dynamics in part or in whole.

In the end, we're verifying what bacteria can do, not as much ammonia imo

To state that existing active surface area cannot process a given bioload without the assistance of a skimmer, and that not enough ammonia generated to wipe out the tank but just enough to register a small spike, is to make a bacterial statement so it's highly interesting.

We know from myriad cycling threads online that a cycled reef tank, without a skimmer, can oxidize well over 4+ ppm ammonia in 24 hours

The diluted immediate salifert skimmate test needs to be about that rough. The 48 hour one, triple.

My vote would be any system displaying that fine balance just outside of total notification has no rock, and no sand

Post pics, we do well w pics

 

[brandon429]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2088448

Key terms stand out there again. The search results I see at least don't show strong ties in the matter. Not saying yours is for sure unrelated, but early trend checking isn't landslide and people have skimmer issues all the time. I press like this to learn/how deep one can clean a reef tank is also affected by what bacteria do so it's worthy to know these bounds.




.25 APi makes bacteria seem so finicky

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Skimmate study

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I do not think one can analyze skimmate and make exact conclusions about what it removed or didn't remove because skimmate is changing as it sits there.

Ammonia is not skimmed out, but skimmate may contain ammonia from bacteria in it metabolizing organics.

 

[Oceanwave45]

Hey there everyone! Happy Sunday! So I conducted a test this weekend and have come to the conclusion that the Protein Skimmer is causing the ammonia in my tank.

Since I only run my protein skimmer during the day, and not at night I tested the water that sits in the protein during night, this is where the ammonia is coming from.

I have a reef octopus 1000 classic hang on back, apparently there is water that sits in the protein once it turned off. The water that sits over night develops ammonia because its not moving.

I have removed the protein skimmer and have on craigslist for sale. I will need to purchase a better one that isn't so loud

If first test tube is the water from the Protein Skimmer and the second test tube is the water from my tank.

Thank you everyone for all of you help regarding this issue! Its been corrected!
Thanks again!

Andrew and Mike

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

IMO, it is typically a bad plan to shut off any device that has water trapped in it, then restart it later without flushing it. Ammonia is not unexpected, but probably isn't even the worst possible problem. Hydrogen sulfide is even more more toxic and can easily be generated in stagnant reef aquarium water from the anaerobic breakdown of organics.

 

[brandon429]

We have many examples of skimmerless reefs not relying on anything other than rocks and sand to be ammonia free ocean wave

To me it's not case closed yet

No losses
Corals always open every pic

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...-to-prevent-free-ammonia.331021/#post-4116978

I'm reading the cause claimed for those two tanks .25/APi is simple nonremoval of that sludge, how does cup testing skimmate not reflect on that

The inference is that it's ammonia charged instantly, claimed test reading spike isn't delaying 48 hours to register that .25



If the breakdown or continually sitting there in water test of diluted skimmate yielded no ammonia initially, or after aerobic digestion allowance for any removed whole proteins, that would be significant to me in ruling it out as something that spiked their ammonia within 12 hours.

Both those tests above are .25 I have not seen a clear yellow or purple posted yet. Some swirled diluted skimmate should go purple between now and Tuesday we could close the case pretty quick.

 

[zuri]

waitwaiwaiwait I helped YOU WHeRE IS MY LIKE WHEREERERE GIVE IT NOWxD

 

[zuri]

made my day ^ hope u all had a great week:)

 

[Oceanwave45]

made my day ^ hope u all had a great week:)

Lol awe! I hope you do as well! Thanks again for your help!

 

[Brew12]

I have removed the protein skimmer and have on craigslist for sale. I will need to purchase a better one that isn't so loud

You could always just try running your system without a protein skimmer and see how it reacts. You may find that you can keep up with your DOC's through water changes.

I would add an air stone and pump to your system to improve air exchange.

 

[Oceanwave45]

I never used a protein skimmer for the first five month! Yes I did a few water issues but that was mainly because me making a mistake.

However, since I have removed the protein skimmer my water is testing fine.

Zero ammonia and everything else is within normal levels.

 

[Pricey89]

Great thread.... I’ve been slightly obsessive in testing my tank every day for the last 6 weeks. This has answered all of my questions!

 

[brandon429]

Since the start of this thread we have found zero uncontrolled ammonia reefs, but new threads about free ammonia are posted daily. This exact trend continues to this day. Reef tanks cannot ever have ammonia hold at .25

in order to associate today’s most updated reef science regarding ammonia with this post, as well as evaluate previous claims, I’d link this thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...cling-experiment-with-me.720307/#post-7481925

the hobby has an ongoing, decades long issue identifying how reef tanks control ammonia. What seneye has done for the hobby is revolutionary

reef tank cycles do not stall out, we have not seen one stalled cycle since 2017 when this thread began.

 

[kris_ch]

Since the start of this thread we have found zero uncontrolled ammonia reefs, but new threads about free ammonia are posted daily. This exact trend continues to this day. Reef tanks cannot ever have ammonia hold at .25

in order to associate today’s most updated reef science regarding ammonia with this post, as well as evaluate previous claims, I’d link this thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...cling-experiment-with-me.720307/#post-7481925

the hobby has an ongoing, decades long issue identifying how reef tanks control ammonia. What seneye has done for the hobby is revolutionary

reef tank cycles do not stall out, we have not seen one stalled cycle since 2017 when this thread began.

Hello I am new here.
I just got some ammonia readings from my fairly new brackish tank (just completed cycling for a little over a month at SG1.003) today so I searched for info online and found this thread.
Just want to share my findings here.

I was using Salifert Ammonia Kit (the newer one which measures NH3+NH4). After water change and dosing prime with stability, the ammonia readings immediately went off the charts which scared the hell out of me as everything seemed normal before. I thought my cycle crashed.
So I performed the ammonia test step by step again in the hope of identifying which part went wrong.

I tested in the following sequence
1)fresh water directly from the tap, 0 reading
2)adding marine salt until SG reached 1.003, same 0 reading
3)added Seachem Prime, reading immediately went off the chart

So maybe Seachem Prime really does have some effect on Ammonia Test Kits I think.

 

[Brew12]

Hello I am new here.
I just got some ammonia readings from my fairly new brackish tank (just completed cycling for a little over a month at SG1.003) today so I searched for info online and found this thread.
Just want to share my findings here.

I was using Salifert Ammonia Kit (the newer one which measures NH3+NH4). After water change and dosing prime with stability, the ammonia readings immediately went off the charts which scared the hell out of me as everything seemed normal before. I thought my cycle crashed.
So I performed the ammonia test step by step again in the hope of identifying which part went wrong.

I tested in the following sequence
1)fresh water directly from the tap, 0 reading
2)adding marine salt until SG reached 1.003, same 0 reading
3)added Seachem Prime, reading immediately went off the chart

So maybe Seachem Prime really does have some effect on Ammonia Test Kits I think.

I'm not sure that the Seachem Prime is having an impact on the Ammonia test kit. I think it is more likely that something the Prime is reacting with is causing the ammonia reading.
For instance, Chloramine won't show up on an ammonia test kit but if you add Prime it breaks down into ammonia.

 

[kris_ch]

I'm not sure that the Seachem Prime is having an impact on the Ammonia test kit. I think it is more likely that something the Prime is reacting with is causing the ammonia reading.
For instance, Chloramine won't show up on an ammonia test kit but if you add Prime it breaks down into ammonia.

That is out of my reach as I don't have much knowledge in how chemicals react.
I tried using a dechlorinator from another brand and it didn't cause the spike in ammonia reading while chlorine is removed.
I wonder what is reacting with prime which caused the spike in reading as well.