Still having Ammonia Issues

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by Oceanwave45, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Okay, so I know I have posted this same post two weeks ago, but I am still having Ammonia issues!

    I have done water changes, I have checked for dead fish, and I have checked for anything else that maybe causing the issue and I haven't been able to determine what is going on!

    I really need some help with this...

    Numbers last few days -
    Ammonia is testing at 0.25 to 1.00 I have been dosing with Prime ever other day.
    Nitrate - 0.05
    Nitrite - 0
    CA 360 - 400
    PH 7.8 to 8.2
    Phospate - 0.25
    Salinity - 1.024

    Changes - None
    New RODI unit - I have test the water and there isn't any ammonia in the RODI water

    Protein Skimmer working during the day only - off at night due the noise - Could this be the problem?? Because water does sit in the unit when its off at night, then turned back on at during the day?

    No fish have died
    I haven't seen many snails tho
    Hermit crabs alive
    Bubble coral alive and out
    Anemone alive and bubbled

    I have had my water checked at the LFS, and yes there is ammonia.

    EQUIPMENT
    Reef Octopus 1ooo classic HOB
    Aqua Clear - Medical Matrix, Purigen, and Sponge.

    I can't figure out whats going on! This has been going on now for three week! I have only had the Protein Skimmer and RODI for three weeks as well.

    I don't know what to do!
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
    Tags:

  2. crabs_mcjones

    crabs_mcjones I was a drab little crab once R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    2,681
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    How long has the tank been up and running?
     
  3. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Eight Months
     
  4. nautical_nathaniel

    nautical_nathaniel Goby Whisperer R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,787
    Likes Received:
    2,201
    Location:
    Pensacola, FL
    What test kit are you using? You could be getting a false positive.
     
    Bunnee911 and DSC reef like this.
  5. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Its not a false positive. There is ammonia in the tank, I just don't know where its coming from
     
  6. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    no

    I vote false positive due to the readings you've posted. ive personally collected over thirty of them in threads. 31 coming up possibly. if not, ill edit that part out to appear not as presumptive

    ammonia tracing is the most fun compound hunting in reefing

    if its not in your sourcewater, post a tank pic, that w beat any test kit for registering low level ammonia. post pic, a call w be made based on the pic and submersion history and accounting of all higher life forms, not on any test kit
     
    crabs_mcjones likes this.
  7. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    If we can't figure this out. My next option is to the following:
    Take everything out of the tank - clean the powerhead, clean the filter, take out the Protein Skimmer.
    And do a 50% water change.
    All new Filter media
    And see if I can keep everything alive during this huge change
     
  8. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    they're low level readings, post pic

    its already figured out.
    do all those actions because they're good at making a reef live forever, not in reaction to the wrong reading.


    no biosystem exists that can oxidize the waste made everyday in that tank, only stopping at the miniscule and quite classic .25/whole numbers


    **you'd have to have a leaking or input source more than 6+ ppm a day, since cycled tanks can sometimes push that much. not so.

    you have opercular motion on fish as a better indicator of 1.0 than any test you'd be second guessing with

    every indicator other than sourcewater = no ammonia can't wait for pics. I think for 31's sake we'll call this one even before the pics get in, and make it the fastest misread call ever. not your fault

    its on google how many people its happened to, it was a google.
     
    Big G, esse and crabs_mcjones like this.
  9. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    What? I am so confused.. I don't know what you mean
     
  10. nautical_nathaniel

    nautical_nathaniel Goby Whisperer R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,787
    Likes Received:
    2,201
    Location:
    Pensacola, FL
    What's you fish load like? The reason I went with false positive is because you're reading ammonia but not nitrite, which logically would be present in some capacity if ammonia was present in a cycled aquarium, which yours must be, otherwise ammonia would be much higher.
     
    Bunnee911, DSC reef and crabs_mcjones like this.
  11. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    post pics

    from that, all I just typed will either be confirmed or denied. post a nice clear full tank shot. you have no ammonia I bet

    we trust a pic to tell us about your ammonia moreso than the testing posted. all that stuff I typed might sound confusing, but it will take the opposite of it to have true persistent free ammonia in a cycled marine system where the fish show no breathing issues and the water is sparkling clear and the corals are all opened and there's no black waste pocketing in the sand. topoff water from an unfiltered ground well might be a perc issue

    that's a pic prediction
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    crabs_mcjones likes this.
  12. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Okay here you are

    675272A1-A217-4261-AAF9-832ADD9EEC5C.jpeg

    AC58BE06-3F76-48D7-8C3D-54A3B3C4F9A6.jpeg

    38721306-97FA-4619-B293-4E33480627C6.jpeg

    933A7CD7-3F0E-4607-A379-85DECF0C2FAE.jpeg

    5FBE3C29-7AE4-40B3-96E5-99F866ADB6C3.jpeg

    15E9599D-B557-48E3-9AD8-A6DEAA848155.jpeg

    image.jpg
     
    5altkreep likes this.
  13. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Ammonia is now at Zero because I had to use prime - I dosed three times today because the ammonia was so high, the fish were at the bottom of the tank laying on the sand
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  14. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    prime causes false positives. its ok to stop adding prime, watch your system not via the test, but via the biology. your fish w act crazy the second theres real and sustained ammonia

    house w smell

    water w tint white a little

    add prime only if the biology indicates the need. we can closely watch the tank over 24 hours to seal the deal. no ammonia predicted so far/misread
     
    DSC reef likes this.
  15. Oceanwave45

    Oceanwave45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    404
    Okay so what do i do now? I am at zero according to the test and fish are swimming like normal and none are sitting on the bottom
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  16. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    you even have very uber sensitive anemones im 100% sure, no free ammonia even if you are adding 3 ppm sourcewater straight from a dr tims bottle heh

    take no action.

    don't add prime even if the ammonia goes up, as long as your fish are acting normal

    add prime no more when a test kit tells you, but when your tank tells you


    the tank says its darn happy as of now

    im going to link a giant thread on why you have no ammonia. its not to throw confusion, its that we put a LOT of stock into finding out where ammonia exists and where it doesn't, so that we can clean tanks/move tanks/work them top to bottom without recycling.

    Ill pm it to you, yours are the group B rocks in the thread, the best kind.

    we can learn a lot from your thread and others will too I guarantee. add no prime, and lemme know when ammonia comes back up to .25 or .5 or 1.0

    and the fish w be normal, those nice anems wide open, we'll begin to trust the tank and call out the test as a rascal, again

    google this see what you think

    api giving false positive ammonia reading?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    Bunnee911 and saltyfilmfolks like this.
  17. jeff williams

    jeff williams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    261
    Wow! I wanna add your Lfs tested your water also and came up with the same readings? Did they also use the same test kit as you?
    When you set up your tank did it cycle proper?
    And lastly when you dose prime it won't change the reading on the api test kit to zero. Api reads total ammonia and prime just detoxifies ammonia, the ammonia is still present it is just in a different form therefor the api test kit will still read the same. Here's something you can do go get a seachem ammonia alert badge put it in your tank and see what it does. These badges only read free/toxic ammonia and these will show a decrease in ammonia if it is in its toxic form when you add prime.
     
    Bunnee911 and JoshH like this.
  18. jeff williams

    jeff williams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    261
    Prime does not give false + , state your sources. I believe your reading the forums were people have confused the info that seachem has posted on there faq's. Prime converts nh3 to nh4 and test kits like api read This as total ammonia which people confuse with the use of gas exchange test kits like seachems that break the ammonia down and read both nh3 and nh4
     
  19. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    Name four different ways people arrive at false positives, won’t matter.
    If it’s a fitting restatement, dosing prime when it’s not needed begets dosing more prime as indicated by the api test kit reading ammonia making an established biofilter look non functioning.


    I have also stated prime causes false api nitrite positives and we no longer use nitrite data in our cycling threads.


    The test above showed ammonia that most people think is impactful, it was not bright yellow for example, which would have made this thread unneeded

    Ambiguity is api

    Wrong kitchen lights and you’re dosing bacteria for good type non sensitivity. Nothing in the directions about the confounds.
    I know there are six people who wield these tests well


    In the end we just demonstrate why biology is more reliable. A pic and a submersion history of the rocks always beats api. The coralline spotting and benthic details when I pinch-zoomed that pic helps more than any test
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  20. brandon429

    brandon429 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5,115
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Location:
    tejas
    I bet the most sensitive, die-in-a-millisecond of true free ammonia mine canary in that aquarium is that fine anthias

    The plero lps will pull right in anytime there’s .25

    Those fish are so sharp looking that’s a great tank.
    If there is real ammonia in that tank, and no snail nor sand sifter is unaccounted for, then it’s being added in source water and that water w smell not nice/

    I’m thinking an original wrong .25 started the prime. Most of the google results are straight up misreads and resulting ammonia addresses...prime doesn’t precede the .25 it seems to follow it as a rescue action
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Loading...