Straton Pro - Has anyone else caught this teaser?

[Spare time]

I am not against led as I have myself.It is not cherry picking data ,at any high they are less bad, and I not know a lot of people that want high them on the ceiling sale coral farms do. And this alone show you the led not even come close.Yes people can go with them and maybe be happy, but they should be aware of the reality the advantage and disadvantage of each technology and not be miss leaded by false marketing claims.
Led use less electricity and are programmable,you can have sunrise sunset..yes this I agree,but the spectrum and spread is still behind the older technologies.
I think people should use a mix of the two technologies until we get a led that match them for really.I experimented enough on my one tanks for the difference, and I also see the tanks of my friends before and after, even with the straton.They are reasons why most sell them already..

Who said mount the straton up near the ceiling? Did you actually look at each of the maps and the par? At the height mentioned in the article you got the map from, they were getting SPS level par 24 inches away on the sand bed. That's about 30 inches away from the light that the person is able to grow SPS. Thus they can mount it higher, maybe try 10-12 inches, and get ideal performance.

Also the spectrum is wider in some LED fixtures. Again, it depends on the fixture and you are generalizing things. Same goes for spread. Depends on the fixture. You can't generalize. It is more complicated.

Another point, I doubt you did an "experiment" with one on your tank. You put a light over it, and stared at the coral. I doubt you have any way to measure the physiological well being of a coral, outside of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Switching lights in general can stress a coral, and simply staring at a coral doesn't tell you anything except what you want to see. This is a common thing I see t5 or MH owners fall trap to.

Finally, you are stating most people are selling their stratons already? Where did you get this information? Have you done large scale surveys on this? Do you know >50% of straton owners?

 

[Superlightman]

Who said mount the straton up near the ceiling? Did you actually look at each of the maps and the par? At the height mentioned in the article you got the mapm from, they were getting SPS level par 24 inches away on the sand bed. That's about 30 inches away from the light that the person is able to grow SPS. Thus they can mount it higher, maybe try 10-12 inches, and get ideal performance.

Also the spectrum is wider in some LED fixtures. Again, it depends on the fixture and you are generalizing things. Same goes for spread. Depends on the fixture. You can't generalize. It is more complicated.

Another point, I doubt you did an "experiment" with one on your tank. You put a light over it, and stared at the coral. I doubt you have any way to measure the physiological well being of a coral, outside of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Switching lights in general can stress a coral, and simply staring at a coral doesn't tell you anything except what you want to see. This is a common thing I see t5 or MH owners fall trap to.

Finally, you are stating most people are selling their stratons already? Where did you get this information? Have you done large scale surveys on this? Do you know >50% of straton owners?

I'm not saying this is a bad light,but just not agree with the marketing hipe around and the arguments that this led already is better than t5,we see this every time a brand bring out a new light and everyone rush in it.And I demonstrate the contrary,people believe this, just not understand the two technologies yet. I gave concrete example and actually the only argument I get in answer here are personal opinion or that I not like the straton.Are you guys here to look only for what confirm your opinion or for exchange on the topic so that everyone growth in knowledge?
I'm in the hobby since 15 years ,tried a lot on my different tanks. I'm also part of one of the European the biggest reef aquarium group, I know the testimony from the people, I also spoke two weeks ago with one of the biggest coral breeder in Europe which has tested near all led on the markets and his conclusion was that yet none led matches the old technologies,some come close but still have work to match them and some other famous lights are bad.I'm also open to new information and I not pretend that I'm true on all, and they are people with much more knowledge than myself, but I know a few things...but what I see here is people present their beliefs as facts without any proof.

 

[areefer01]

but what I see here is people present their beliefs as facts without any proof.

This is true with most equipment in this hobby and not just lighting. Even your information is anecdotal.

Very few peer reviewed papers but a lot of instagram and youtube lighting experts...

 

[Jon's Reef]

I'm not saying this is a bad light,but just not agree with the marketing hipe around and the arguments that this led already is better than t5,we see this every time a brand bring out a new light and everyone rush in it.And I demonstrate the contrary,people believe this, just not understand the two technologies yet. I gave concrete example and actually the only argument I get in answer here are personal opinion or that I not like the straton.Are you guys here to look only for what confirm your opinion or for exchange on the topic so that everyone growth in knowledge?
I'm in the hobby since 15 years ,tried a lot on my different tanks. I'm also part of one of the European the biggest reef aquarium group, I know the testimony from the people, I also spoke two weeks ago with one of the biggest coral breeder in Europe which has tested near all led on the markets and his conclusion was that yet none led matches the old technologies,some come close but still have work to match them and some other famous lights are bad.I'm also open to new information and I not pretend that I'm true on all, and they are people with much more knowledge than myself, but I know a few things...but what I see here is people present their beliefs as facts without any proof.

LED tech has reached the level in terms of growth and coloration a while ago. It surpasses the older tech in eliminating spike artifacts and providing a spectrum that is customized for the animals that we keep. This is why par requirement to achieve growth/ color is lower for LED setups vs older tech. 2 examples given below.

Documented case:

https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

One of the largest coral vendors in the US, specializing in creating corals that are acclimated to the aquarium environment:


In both cases notice that the fixture height is fairly high producing a broad spread. This can also be accomplished by using a panel LED fixture at lower height.

Success is not only about the light. It is also providing proper chemistry, flow and ensuring the specimen is acclimated to the aquarium environment.

 

[Superlightman]

LED tech has reached the level in terms of growth and coloration a while ago. It surpasses the older tech in eliminating spike artifacts and providing a spectrum that is customized for the animals that we keep. This is why par requirement to achieve growth/ color is lower for LED setups vs older tech. 2 examples given below.

Documented case:

https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

One of the largest coral vendors in the US, specializing in creating corals that are acclimated to the aquarium environment:


In both cases notice that the fixture height is fairly high producing a broad spread. This can also be accomplished by using a panel LED fixture at lower height.

Success is not only about the light. It is also providing proper chemistry, flow and ensuring the specimen is acclimated to the aquarium environment.

I agree with your last sentence,not the rest .The ecotech studied is a joke and was already discussed many times.You think a manufacturer will show you a study which show his products are less good? Why so many add t5 to their led,to the radions? Wwc is entirely sponsored by ecotech this is a big financial point for them and they will put the led very high,will add much more of them than you will ever and still added t5 to it.The energetic cost also plays a role for them.
And yes led can growth coral, no doubt about it, but less good than t5 .why do you think so many people ad t5 or even went back?I'm a Radion g5 owner myself ,I was never able the same results with them then t5.For the coverage, I had to add twice of the recommended amount and then even ad led bars!And the results were still disappointed.I had to add t5 to get the old results back within a few days, the things improves.And with led the corals are much more sensible, every time a parameter change you get stn/rtn.
If I never owned other technologies before, I would probably not complain,but when you experienced the results prior,you see that they aren't as good as the marketing says.The problem, most here never had experienced the other technologies and believes all the marketing.
And from the spectrum,yes you can choose it but the spectrum if all led in the market actually lacks spectrums compared to halides and t5,which probably explains the less good results. Research in the forum they are many information about this.The best spectrum is probably Kessil and Orphek but they are still not complete.
And here are some testimonials you can find on forums,why they are so many of them?
And show my led tanks that look like this under daylight,with no blue light and filter or photoshop:

I also know people with amazing zeo tanks that switched back to t5 because with led they can have nice tanks but not the stunning results and colors they ad before.
I'm not against led,they have their purpose and can work,but against wrong claims.

 

[areefer01]

I agree with your last sentence,not the rest .The ecotech studied is a joke and was already discussed many times.You think a manufacturer will show you a study which show his products are less good? Why so many add t5 to their led,to the radions? Wwc is entirely sponsored by ecotech this is a big financial point for them and they will put the led very high,will add much more of them than you will ever and still added t5 to it.The energetic cost also plays a role for them.
And yes led can growth coral, no doubt about it, but less good than t5 .why do you think so many people ad t5 or even went back?I'm a Radion g5 owner myself ,I was never able the same results with them then t5.For the coverage, I had to add twice of the recommended amount and then even ad led bars!And the results were still disappointed.I had to add t5 to get the old results back within a few days, the things improves.And with led the corals are much more sensible, every time a parameter change you get stn/rtn.
If I never owned other technologies before, I would probably not complain,but when you experienced the results prior,you see that they aren't as good as the marketing says.The problem, most here never had experienced the other technologies and believes all the marketing.
And from the spectrum,yes you can choose it but the spectrum if all led in the market actually lacks spectrums compared to halides and t5,which probably explains the less good results. Research in the forum they are many information about this.The best spectrum is probably Kessil and Orphek but they are still not complete.
And here are some testimonials you can find on forums,why they are so many of them?
And show my led tanks that look like this under daylight,with no blue light and filter or photoshop:

I also know people with amazing zeo tanks that switched back to t5 because with led they can have nice tanks but not the stunning results and colors they ad before.
I'm not against led,they have their purpose and can work,but against wrong claims.

Think about the amount of energy hobbyists waste debating which light format is king or best. One thing, maybe two things we should all agree on. There isn't a best between them. It is going to evolve over time. Secondly they are just one part of the design. A tool. And we all know there is a correct tool to use for the job. Yes, a standard screwdriver or chisel can remove a nail but there are better tools for the job...

This really isn't directed to your post per say but more of an observation on the sheer number of posts that try to prove or disprove one over the other.

 

[Jon's Reef]

I agree with your last sentence,not the rest .The ecotech studied is a joke and was already discussed many times.You think a manufacturer will show you a study which show his products are less good? Why so many add t5 to their led,to the radions? Wwc is entirely sponsored by ecotech this is a big financial point for them and they will put the led very high,will add much more of them than you will ever and still added t5 to it.The energetic cost also plays a role for them.
And yes led can growth coral, no doubt about it, but less good than t5 .why do you think so many people ad t5 or even went back?I'm a Radion g5 owner myself ,I was never able the same results with them then t5.For the coverage, I had to add twice of the recommended amount and then even ad led bars!And the results were still disappointed.I had to add t5 to get the old results back within a few days, the things improves.And with led the corals are much more sensible, every time a parameter change you get stn/rtn.
If I never owned other technologies before, I would probably not complain,but when you experienced the results prior,you see that they aren't as good as the marketing says.The problem, most here never had experienced the other technologies and believes all the marketing.
And from the spectrum,yes you can choose it but the spectrum if all led in the market actually lacks spectrums compared to halides and t5,which probably explains the less good results. Research in the forum they are many information about this.The best spectrum is probably Kessil and Orphek but they are still not complete.
And here are some testimonials you can find on forums,why they are so many of them?
And show my led tanks that look like this under daylight,with no blue light and filter or photoshop:

I also know people with amazing zeo tanks that switched back to t5 because with led they can have nice tanks but not the stunning results and colors they ad before.
I'm not against led,they have their purpose and can work,but against wrong claims.

Your position is that LED technology cannot produce the same or better results as T5/ MH. That is untrue. Please point out in that video from WWC where you see T5 or MH being used. Their entire setup is LED. It does not matter how they acquire them, what matters is that they produce the results. Full stop. You said LED tech cannot produce color and growth. There is one big example of it working wonderfully.

Same with the Coral lab study. It was paid for by Ecotech to develop the right spectrum to meet or exceed results from ATI T5. They then produce the documented results and you say "oh they cheated". Where is your proof. There is a fully documented paper. Where is your evidence? "I heard one time from this guy and a bunch of forum peeps agree". Where is the hard evidence that the coral lab study and resulting AB+ spectrum is garbage?

Those 2 cases (there are many other) show that LED tech can provide both color and growth that meets or exceeds that of older tech.

Why do tanks that switch from older tech to LED suffer? It is a big change. The corals have acclimated to the old setup. The chemistry, flow, growth pattern. Everything has adapted. Then you swap to a different light source. Of course it will suffer. To find parity in par, you not only would need to match par, but also integral spectrum. Then, as discussed in the coral lab paper, you have to find where LED tech with adjustable spectrum can exceed the old tech results. All of this takes months if not years to adapt a current reef to new tech.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Think about the amount of energy hobbyists waste debating which light format is king or best. One thing, maybe two things we should all agree on. There isn't a best between them. It is going to evolve over time. Secondly they are just one part of the design. A tool. And we all know there is a correct tool to use for the job. Yes, a standard screwdriver or chisel can remove a nail but there are better tools for the job...

This really isn't directed to your post per say but more of an observation on the sheer number of posts that try to prove or disprove one over the other.

I agree that the older tech grows coral, but where I take issue is the blanket claim that LED cannot grow coral or achieve coloration.

 

[areefer01]

I agree that the older tech grows coral, but where I take issue is the blanket claim that LED cannot grow coral or achieve coloration.

Sure, I know your stance. Notice my reply isn't one is better than the other but rather the amount of time we waste discussing it. This is a debate that will not end due to personal bias.

Again not directed at you or anyone here just an observation is all.

 

[rtparty]

Latest update from ATI is these will not be coming to the US market anytime soon.

If the total lack of Straton stock is any indication, I wouldn't expect to see the Pro for 2 years or more. If ever.

And if ATI can't include a couple metal brackets to help end users hang the lights, this light will never be a serious contender.