Stray voltage and is a grounding probe needed?

[Dom]

Watch a bird land on a live wire. Everything is fine. If the bird lands on a live wire with one foot, and ground or neutral with the other, it’s toast.
I don’t recommend you do this, I’d rather you trust PaulB and others on this thread, but if you want to understand in a shocking second….. take out a wall receptacle. Take off the black power wire and hold onto the bare end of it. You won’t feel much if you’re careful not to touch anything else. Then with the other hand touch a ground and report back

That won't be necessary.

 

[Freenow54]

Yes I was just trying to answer the original question about whether a ground probe was a good idea not delve into specifics. I too was misunderstanding the role of the ground wire in a circuit and a GFI . Bean Animal set me straight. I certainly am not suggesting that a GFI is not a valuable addition . It is just that if we get involved in stray voltage in the tank water we are not part of the GFI circuit we are not a circuit at all until we ground ourselves like you said. So hand in the water is just like grabbing the black wire. Except we are not getting voltage potential from the GFI out. My question is if we ground ourselves somehow are we not then a separate circuit ? No one ever talked about how the fairly recent death occurred I imagine its impossible to know the factual situation since electricity has so many possibilities

 

[Paul B]

My question is if we ground ourselves somehow are we not then a separate circuit ?

No, not a separate circuit. The same circuit with another path to ground.

If it's on the same breaker, it is the same circuit no matter how many paths to ground there are. And all of them can electrocute you.

 

[Freenow54]

No, not a separate circuit. The same circuit with another path to ground.

If it's on the same breaker, it is the same circuit no matter how many paths to ground there are. And all of them can electrocute you.

Perfect since I could not fathom that without actually grabbing the neutral which I figured would make you a parallel circuit . So what would you then be considered from the circuit type perspective ??

 

[theMeat]

Hahaha
You’d be a ground fault circuit, wishing you had a ground fault circuit interrupter.
Or maybe a short circuit, not sure how tall you are.
Thought you didn’t want to delve into specifics…

 

[Paul B]

. So what would you then be considered from the circuit type perspective ??

I don't know. I don't understand the question.

 

[Freenow54]

Hahaha
You’d be a ground fault circuit, wishing you had a ground fault circuit interrupter.
Or maybe a short circuit, not sure how tall you are.
Thought you didn’t want to delve into specifics…

I do but not for the individual that asked the simple question, Did not want to muddy the waters for them. One thing you keep missing I think is that you believe the ground wire plays a part in the GFI function. If you don't mind clarifying that . Also you don't specify if the GFI is on a power Bar , In the receptacle or at the panel . And don't forget the ground probe and where its plugged into. I could actually see where I would be part of a short circuit in that case would need an arc device

I don't know. I don't understand the question.

So lets just say the plug of the load say a power head is plugged into a GFI. So as I se it if there is stray voltage in the water from say the insulation being corroded. In that case the voltage in the tank is potential energy and no current flow which as I see it the GFI will not trip. because the power head circuit is not showing any differential of amperage . If you stick your hand in the water and ground yourself you say I as a load would be part of the same circuit which makes sense to me since there is only the beginning source from the panel. In that regard to me a GFI would not trip ? Would I then be a parallel circuit ?

 

[Paul B]

So as I se it if there is stray voltage in the water from say the insulation being corroded.

That would be a dead short, not stray voltage and the breaker would trip if there was a ground in the tank. In that case you would have about 110 volts in the water and if you stuck your hand in there, "if" you were grounded, you would get a big wake up call. But then the GFI would trip.

So the best thing is to have a GFI and a ground. Or get a different, safer hobby. Maybe bungee jumping or cliff diving.

 

[SirSaltyNutz]

So as I se it if there is stray voltage in the water from say the insulation being corroded.

That would be a dead short, not stray voltage and the breaker would trip if there was a ground in the tank. In that case you would have about 110 volts in the water and if you stuck your hand in there, "if" you were grounded, you would get a big wake up call. But then the GFI would trip.

So the best thing is to have a GFI and a ground. Or get a different, safer hobby. Maybe bungee jumping or cliff diving.

Thanks for educational information Paul. You made a new fan today, just bought your book.
I thought I share a brief story... As kid (8?) I had 20 gal fresh water tank, one day I was cleaning it and knocked the hood light (54 now) that was 120 volts. I remember to this a day the feeling of the water "holding" my arm or it seem like it..Any whoot, an awesome reminder to that electricity and water should not mix! Appreciate your (and Bean Animal) practical and educational sharing of knowledge. Cheers and have great new year.

 

[Paul B]

Happy to you also SirSaltyNutz