Stray voltage and is a grounding probe needed?

[Freenow54]

When you say grounding probe with GFCI, do you mean that the probe itself needs to be plugged into a GFCI? or the equipment needs to be plugged into a GFCI, or both the probe AND the equipment need to be plugged into a GFCI. Thanks.

No first off some people have stated they don't believe in them . Just saying that to try to prevent a " discussion ". they are meant to be since the probe only has one prong , to be plugged directly into a grounded receptacle. The instructions state

not to plug into a power bar as well

 

[Jamie814]

not to plug into a power bar as well

That is more of a blanket statement by the mfg to protect themselves against incorrect use and a false sense of safety. IF the powerbar is properly grounded it would not matter. The issue is that some powerbars or power strips only have 2 prongs and no 3rd ground prong. So plugging the grounding probe into one of them would be useless in most cases. Notice they also state multiple times that the outlet itself must be properly grounded for the probe to provide any safely benefit.

Anyone using a grounding probe must first verify that the outlet it is plugged into is properly grounded.

Especially if you live in an older home, just because the receptacle has a 3-prong grounding outlet installed does not always mean it is wired properly.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A simple plug in circuit tester is not a replacement for an electrician or a finite diagnosis tool, but is useful vs guessing if a circuit is wired with correct polarity and theoretically properly grounded.

 

[Paul B]

The ground probe can be plugged into any grounded receptacle.

Or a metal water pipe or a grounding rod into the ground or the best, into Beans fish tank.

 

[Paul B]

You can ground to a metal water pipe or a grounding rod into the ground or the best, into Beans fish tank.

 

[Freenow54]

That is more of a blanket statement by the mfg to protect themselves against incorrect use and a false sense of safety. IF the powerbar is properly grounded it would not matter. The issue is that some powerbars or power strips only have 2 prongs and no 3rd ground prong. So plugging the grounding probe into one of them would be useless in most cases. Notice they also state multiple times that the outlet itself must be properly grounded for the probe to provide any safely benefit.

Anyone using a grounding probe must first verify that the outlet it is plugged into is properly grounded.

Especially if you live in an older home, just because the receptacle has a 3-prong grounding outlet installed does not always mean it is wired properly.

I absolutely said that quite clearly. I don't assume a power bar is properly grounded either. I would not even count on that using a GFI. Have you ever opened up a power bar from China ? Some are complete garbage I opened one lately and it was solidly Manufactured I was pleasantly surprised about that since it was $ 24 on Amazon. Meanwhile because of me not trusting them , I bought one from Digikey . A US manufacturer that sells in Canada as well it was surge protected but $ 75 to me it was worth it especially considering the money spent on things that don't represent life threatening hazards. Also you jumped on my statement without reading or observing. It would be pretty tough to plug one into a two prong receptacle ie Impossible

 

[Jamie814]

Also you jumped on my statement without reading or observing. It would be pretty tough to plug one into a two prong receptacle ie Impossible

I didn't jump on anyone, just added to your statement. Plenty of power strips that look like this out there, 2 prongs to the wall 3 prongs on the strip. Maybe @BeanAnimal can explain how this works with the ground?

 

[BeanAnimal]

There is no ground and a power strip with 3 blade receptacles and a two blade plug should have the cord cut off and be thrown in garbage.

 

[Freenow54]

There is no ground and a power strip with 3 blade receptacles and a two blade plug should have the cord cut off and be thrown in garbage.

Please tell me were its made . Besides my disgust, and distrust for the Chinese Manufacturers . I am not going to rant again about them forging UL stickers. I prefer to support North American Industries

 

[theMeat]

I didn't jump on anyone, just added to your statement. Plenty of power strips that look like this out there, 2 prongs to the wall 3 prongs on the strip. Maybe @BeanAnimal can explain how this works with the ground?

Ummm, if you drop it in a lake, it’s grounded. Trust me

 

[Freenow54]

I didn't jump on anyone, just added to your statement. Plenty of power strips that look like this out there, 2 prongs to the wall 3 prongs on the strip. Maybe @BeanAnimal can explain how this works with the ground?

Ummm, if you drop it in a lake, it’s grounded. Trust me

Really want to know why you say that. Yes no argument about a real lake . But this is not a lake its ( the Tank Water )insulated from ground to my mind . I don't know the direction you are taking or what you mean by " IT "

 

[Dom]

A ground probe paired with gfci is the only way to go imo. A ground probe without a gfci is downright dangerous

Please explain this.

 

[Freenow54]

Please explain this.

Yes I think that the post was not stated clearly I think they meant not to just rely on a ground probe alone. The Gfi would not trip if the probe completed a circuit with stray voltage that is not how a GFI functions for sure now a bean student and got everything clarified in my head. But I fail to see how a ground probe alone is dangerous .

 

[theMeat]

Please explain this.

There’s a saying. If you can’t explain it simply you simply don’t understand. Here there’s a few points to discuss to gain an understanding.
With stray voltage ….. without a path to ground or neutral you might question it and hardly even feel it. A tingling that you might think is salt in your cut, if you have a cut. Hold onto a ground with one hand and stick your other hand into that stray voltage and you become the path and won’t be questioning it anymore. If that stray voltage is on a 20 amp breaker you’ll get around 20 amps of juice before it trips. With a gfci it’s around 5 milliamperes (much less). A gfi works in a different way too. When it detects around 5 milliamps difference between the power going out, and what comes back via the neutral, it trips.
With a ground probe in your tank on a circuit without gfi protection the water in your tank can become a direct path and is dangerous.

 

[theMeat]

Really want to know why you say that. Yes no argument about a real lake . But this is not a lake it’s ( the Tank Water )insulated from ground to my mind . I don't know the direction you are taking or what you mean by " IT "

Glad you agree a lake is sufficient ground, although I wouldn’t recommend it

 

[Freenow54]

There’s a saying. If you can’t explain it simply you simply don’t understand. Here there’s a few points to discuss to gain an understanding.
With stray voltage ….. without a path to ground or neutral you might question it and hardly even feel it. A tingling that you might think is salt in your cut, if you have a cut. Hold onto a ground with one hand and stick your other hand into that stray voltage and you become the path and won’t be questioning it anymore. If that stray voltage is on a 20 amp breaker you’ll get around 20 amps of juice before it trips. With a gfci it’s around 5 milliamperes (much less). A gfi works in a different way too. When it detects around 5 milliamps difference between the power going out, and what comes back via the neutral, it trips.
With a ground probe in your tank on a circuit without gfi protection the water in your tank can become a direct path and is dangerous.

So for you to be a circuit you have to have contact with the current if you will wire which for us is the black wire or have your hand in the water. Also the neutral NOT the ground of the circuit going back to the GFI. The ground statement is mis leading , and wrong when it is in relation to the GFI function. Unless you are also holding the Neutral wire the GFI will not function. If your bare feet are creating a circuit to ground you will certainly die because you have no protection at all. Even the 20 amp breaker wont trip. If you have your hand in the tank and grasp the neutral wire you are the leak to ground and to me the leak would maybe sufficient to trip the GFI. Simply stated the Ground Wire has no function concerning the GFI ask Bean Animal if you like.

 

[theMeat]

So for you to be a circuit you have to have contact with the current if you will wire which for us is the black wire or have your hand in the water. Also the neutral NOT the ground of the circuit going back to the GFI. The ground statement is mis leading , and wrong when it is in relation to the GFI function. Unless you are also holding the Neutral wire the GFI will not function. If your bare feet are creating a circuit to ground you will certainly die because you have no protection at all. Even the 20 amp breaker wont trip. If you have your hand in the tank and grasp the neutral wire you are the leak to ground and to me the leak would maybe sufficient to trip the GFI. Simply stated the Ground Wire has no function concerning the GFI ask Bean Animal if you like.

If you want to be right you got some of it right.
A gfi does not trip because power goes to ground, ground has nothing to do with why a gfi trips. But the end result is the same, and that result is you and the tank inhabitants stay safe. Because when some power goes to ground, instead or returning to the neutral on the gfi, the gfi trips within 5 milliamps, instead of the 15 or 20 the circuit runs on.

 

[Dom]

But I fail to see how a ground probe alone is dangerous .

Yes, this is where I'm not clear.

 

[theMeat]

Watch a bird land on a live wire. Everything is fine. If the bird lands on a live wire with one foot, and ground or neutral with the other, it’s toast.
I don’t recommend you do this, I’d rather you trust PaulB and others on this thread, but if you want to understand in a shocking second….. take out a wall receptacle. Take off the black power wire and hold onto the bare end of it. You won’t feel much if you’re careful not to touch anything else. Then with the other hand touch a ground and report back

Yes, this is where I'm not clear.

 

[Paul B]

Take off the black power wire and hold onto the bare end of it. You won’t feel much if you’re careful not to touch anything else. Then with the hand touch a ground and report back

As an electrician we often work on live circuits no matter how large the conductors are. But we are supposed to know what we are doing, just like the birds on the high voltage lines.

(I took this on my morning walk)