Stray voltage and is a grounding probe needed?

[Amber.]

I don’t understand why people put their hands in the tank with electrical equipment plugged in. It just feels like everyone skimps over the manuals that say “Unplug all electrical devices when servicing your equipment or aquarium. Electrical shock and electrocution can occur.”

You need two separate extension (power) cords with their appropriate drip loops. One that turns off absolutely everything that has direct contact with the water and the other one that has your light(s) plugged into it. Simply turn off the one with all of your electrical in the water equipment and leave the one with your light(s) plugged in and powered on so you can do maintenance without a flashlight. Done deal. Safe, effective and no need to worry about dying when feeding, water changing, etc your tanks.

(Edit) A lot faster to just flick a switch and feed than going through tens of apps to shut off pump a, b, c, and e for feeding.

 

[BeanAnimal]

thats not normal. something is very wrong.
you shouldnt be getting stray voltage from every item plugged in on your tank.

“Stray voltage” is a misleading term and measuring voltage without current, especially with a digital multimeter is somewhat useless.

Each item turned on is creating an induced current that is being read through the multimeter as a small voltage.

Getting into the details is beyond the scope of this conversation, but it is not abnormal.

Without measuring the current, we can’t determine if this is just induced voltage or that along with a fault in one or more of his devices. It sounds like the awc pump could have a fault, however if it did, and he was getting shocked with anything above 20ma (or whatever the standard is in the EU) then the RCSD would trip.

The caveat being that if the fault is from hot to neutral (through the water between two devices) then the GFCI or RCSD would not trip, it would see the fault as a valid load. This could be through he body. Adding the grounding probe would drain this fault current to ground and trip the GFCI or RCSD. That said, if a ground probe is used, the entire tank and everything near it MUST be GFCI/RCSD protected or you create a potentially deadly situation that did not exist without the probe.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Doh crap… Paul best me to it I see now that I posted. Pretty fast for an old timer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

So, in your opinion, is it best to have a grounding probe in both the sump and the main display since we have electrical equipment in both sections (assuming most people have wavemakers in the DT)?

That can create its own set of issues, as the induced voltage mentioned above could create perpetual current flow between the two tanks through the ground probes and create a galvanic reaction or other oddities.

I am not (at all) a fan of ground probes for various reasons. GFCI protection will do the job and if there is a fault and you ground that fault with your body the device will trip.

FWIW I think most wave makers are now DC anyway.

 

[Freenow54]

I had my wife hold the spark plug wire in a lawnmower while I pulled the rope. She is now my ex-wife. Funny how things work out

and people say there is no karma. Do you have to try not to laugh when you tell that story?

 

[Paul B]

I don’t understand why people put their hands in the tank with electrical equipment plugged in.

When the hobby started in 1971 we had to turn on the lights with a stick because salt creep would make everything live. There were no GFIs then, just Manly men who didn't mind a few shocks.

Pretty fast for an old timer.

Never underestimate an old Soldier.

 

[vdubers]

Again thank you for all the helpful comments. I haven’t really changed anything but have noticed that the tingle isn’t there anymore. I also did attempt to measure current with my multimeter and it came up zero even when I was feeling the tingle.

 

[exnisstech]

and people say there is no karma. Do you have to try not to laugh when you tell that story?

I do. It was hilarious. She didn't spaz, just a quick jerk and her body tensed. The look I got was priceless. I can't repeat her comment. I look at it as payback for when she was helping me bleed a brake master cylinder and she pumped the pedal when I didn't tell her to and brake fluid sprayed onto both of my eyes. I always try to get even

 

[BeanAnimal]

Simply turn off the one with all of your electrical in the water equipment and leave the one with your light(s) plugged in and powered on so you can do maintenance without a flashlight. Done deal. Safe, effective and no need to worry about dying when feeding, water changing, etc your tanks.

Except if that light fixture has a fault and you touch your face, shoulder, whatever to it while your other arm is submerged in the tank or your body is otherwise grounded... zap...

If you are properly using GFCI protection, then you don't have this problem, nor do you need to unplug the aquarium every time that you touch it.

 

[Ziggy17]

I don’t understand why people put their hands in the tank with electrical equipment plugged in. It just feels like everyone skimps over the manuals that say “Unplug all electrical devices when servicing your equipment or aquarium. Electrical shock and electrocution can occur.

I think you’re mistaking what they mean by “servicing” vs putting your hand in your tank to do things.

 

[Paul B]

Except if that light fixture has a fault and you touch your face, shoulder, whatever to it while your other arm is submerged in the tank or your body is otherwise grounded... zap...

This reminds me of a story. My good friend asked me to come over because his wife was getting shocks in her kitchen. They have an electric stove and she gets a shock when she touches the stove. (I just think she always wanted to go out to eat)

Anyway I went there and touched the stove. No shock. He said to touch the stove and refrigerator. I did that, no shock. So he said to touch the stove and the sink at the same time. I did that, no shock so he told me to touch the stove, refrigerator and sink faucet at the same time.

I said to him, "How does your wife cook?" Just tell her not to touch all those things at once and she will be fine.

 

[Paul B]

Except if that light fixture has a fault and you touch your face,

Thats why when I put my hand in my tank, I always touch someone elses face.

 

[Freenow54]

Again thank you for all the helpful comments. I haven’t really changed anything but have noticed that the tingle isn’t there anymore. I also did attempt to measure current with my multimeter and it came up zero even when I was feeling the tingle.

There would be no measured current ie amps without a load is series

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I run a grounding probe like the one in the picture, that only has a probe going into the ground port of the plug in, don't know how it could be dangerous at all if you're house is properly grounded...I've had zero issues with stray voltage, but like @vetteguy53081 said I use it for the just incase.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thats why when I put my hand in my tank, I always touch someone elses face.

Remind me to tell the huge van de graaf generator story sometime. Long of short I broke the rule on purpose they got mad so I let go fully charged. Needless to say the length of the arc from my finger to the lady’s nose was so much longer and stronger than I expected.

 

[Freenow54]

When the hobby started in 1971 we had to turn on the lights with a stick because salt creep would make everything live. There were no GFIs then, just Manly men who didn't mind a few shocks.

Never underestimate an old Soldier.

Your book just arrived looking forward to reading it

 

[Freenow54]

Thats why when I put my hand in my tank, I always touch someone elses face.

So reading the book. In the section about Quarantine. I have had a yellow watchman goby in QT for a little over a month. I am tempted to add it to the main display. It 9 when I can see it seems fine obviously eating or would be dead by now. Do you think I should treat it with copper? Second question I have one unopened container of Prazipro, And another of copper safe also unopened They both have expiry dates mid 2023. do you think that I can use it?

 

[Paul B]

I have no idea what you can use Prizapro for and I would not use copper on anything unless it was dying from a parasite.
I don't know if you should take your fish out of quarantine after a month and put it in your tank.
I don't do quarantine as I feel it is counter productive and "eventually" (no one knows how long) it will destroy the fishes immunity. That is my opinion but everyone will have other opinions.

None of my fish including the 33 year olds were ever quarantined or medicated and it doesn't matter how many parasite ridden fish I put in my tank because they are immune. But there are a few factors that have to be taken into consideration before your fish will be immune and it is not just to throw fish into any tank.

 

[Freenow54]

I have no idea what you can use Prizapro for and I would not use copper on anything unless it was dying from a parasite.
I don't know if you should take your fish out of quarantine after a month and put it in your tank.
I don't do quarantine as I feel it is counter productive and "eventually" (no one knows how long) it will destroy the fishes immunity. That is my opinion but everyone will have other opinions.

None of my fish including the 33 year olds were ever quarantined or medicated and it doesn't matter how many parasite ridden fish I put in my tank because they are immune. But there are a few factors that have to be taken into consideration before your fish will be immune and it is not just to throw fish into any tank.

I have been reading your book and mistakenly thought you used coppersafe on everything ie for 10 days as in your book However I also read so far about immunity, and feeding live blackworms which I have yet to try to find. So dont know if I can find these worms and or find a way to get more oils to it. Do yellow tangs eat them? Anyway To keep it out of the main display for a while until I do or acclimate it in now I do like your suggestion of gathering real sea water at the mouth of a bay as the tide comes in. When I was going to a spot called Bishops Island in New Brunswick Which was inhabited by the owner of CP rail and ( builder ) Its worth the trip as he had his own dedicated fire suppression system ie hydrants surrounding his 1930s mansion to name one thing I talked to people clamming. They told me they have to flush them for 2 weeks in salt water to get rid of the E.coli caused by runoff from cattle farms among others. On the upside I like you used under gravel filters for my fresh water fish. Although not as near accomplished as you. I focused on terrariums at the age of about 8 and when I eventually let what we called Garter snakes maybe real name Garden They hid in the heat ducts died and stunk the house up badly . Now you are the only other living soul that shares my dark past. Anyway Starting Another tank And am going to construct a reverse under water filter. But wondering about granular size of gravel to use. I have to read the chapter again but if you can guide me would be appreciated Its going to be minimalist with fish. I intend to get small schooling fish to lower the bio load

 

[javajaws]

What if you have 2 GFCI circuits running your equipment - do you need to ground to both, one, or none?