Substrate Yes or NO

[Freenow54]

Fairly recently I have talked to two well educated people face to face about my Aiptasia issue in a tank that is over 30 years old. They are going to help me with straightening it out as well as my second tank. During the conversation he thought I said my tank was about 4 years old . He said that it is common for tanks to start developing issues after 4 years. When I corrected him , that is when he got really interested . As I am typing this I realized that its because how often would he get the chance to see or work on one this old. He even was to the point of locking in a home visit.
That being said my second Tank after 6 years is nothing but problems as far as growing Coral . Without actually asking him which I intend to do today after giving him all the information he may need Photos , Par Readings , and all the tests that I have available to me is wether a bare bottom Tank is better as far as raising everything regardless of how it looks. I don't like the thought of doing this as It to me just looks strange, however I would like some serious opinions about it , as I am putting together a third Tank and need to decide. You dont have to be a scientist but Randy/Lasse types please chime in . For the rest of you opinion is great any observations you have made as well . I need the help


Thanks : Wally

 

[Kooma]

I’ve ran both bare bottom and substrate, and been in the hobby for about 15 years. The bare bottom is nice to manage nutrients, however I agree that I don’t like the look, and the sand works in our favour if we let it and maintain it.

I’m curious if you have been running the same tank for 30 years or upgraded in that time?

Also interested in your coral situation, and what your reefing habits and maintenance is, as that can lead to an answer.

In the past I’ve seen coral struggle in one tank, and moving coral to a new system and scrapping the rocks, the issue goes away for the frags.

Interested to hear more.

 

[xiaoxiy]

I almost always run sand in my tanks. It just looks so much nicer.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I prefer the look of sand over bare bottom!

 

[Freenow54]

I’ve ran both bare bottom and substrate, and been in the hobby for about 15 years. The bare bottom is nice to manage nutrients, however I agree that I don’t like the look, and the sand works in our favour if we let it and maintain it.

I’m curious if you have been running the same tank for 30 years or upgraded in that time?

Also interested in your coral situation, and what your reefing habits and maintenance is, as that can lead to an answer.

In the past I’ve seen coral struggle in one tank, and moving coral to a new system and scrapping the rocks, the issue goes away for the frags.

Interested to hear more.

As to maintaining that is a big problem as I see it. I used to have a 60 with about 18 yellow African cichlids in it . They bred all the time. I cleaned the substrate every week using the old siphon tube and drill driven pump method. The water ( 3 five gallon pails ) was filthy like light brown . I lost them all to Malawi bloat because the vets here convinced the government to remove all medications off pet store shelves. When I drained and cleaned the tank the water was black needless to say I was shocked. Since our salt water tanks are full of rock my question is how do we maintained it ? As well as the fact when I did Once disturb the sand in my 30 year old as a test all sorts of critters came out as well as the I will call filth so never again. How to do it from the start I cannot think of how.
The tank is a 40 and has one fish , a clown she is as old as the tank . It is still running and is full of mushrooms until the Aiptasia appeared . So I have been fighting them for two weeks with the live inverts Berghia Nudibranchs . It is over 30 years old. It was bought with my son as a running tank so is actually well over 30 years . It runs on a Fluval Canister an Eshopps HOB skimmer , and one power head

I started my own tank about 6 years ago no parasites disease or anything related . Just cant grow certain coral at all . I do water changes on it ( about 30 gallon's ) every week or week and a half. I started with 15 supposedly easy Coral . I have four left. I added a kiwi ? tree and another pesty soft flowing coral if it is a coral and have to actually trim it back to get light to the others

 

[Paul B]

No sand for me, only dolomite gravel which tombstones are made out of in Italy.
I think.
I think we need water circulation going through everything in the tank and after a while, nothing goes through sand.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Subsea]

Wally,
Consider running reverse flow undergravel filter thru your substrate. I used araggonite/crushed coral in the
1-3 mm range.

PS:
I operated Jaubert plenum for 40 years before switching to reverse flow undergravel filter 10 years ago.

 

[Freenow54]

No sand for me, only dolomite gravel which tombstones are made out of in Italy.
I think.
I think we need water circulation going through everything in the tank and after a while, nothing goes through sand.

Just my opinion of course.

I used the term substrate I dont like sand either . My Diamond Goby liked this. So as to my third and new tank what about this ?

So I sent you a question regarding your underwater filter and you saying that you have to maintain it . How ?what's involved . I sent a photo of the stuff I found on amazon. What do you think ? If not where can you source Dolomite ?

 

[Freenow54]

Wally,
Consider running reverse flow undergravel filter thru your substrate. I used araggonite/crushed coral in the
1-3 mm range.

PS:
I operated Jaubert plenum for 40 years before switching to reverse flow undergravel filter 10 years ago.

I an asking Paul right now about that very thing . I also want to use the same as you aragonite . He was talking about having to maintain the filter which I don't understand. If you have time can you send photos of your set up?

 

[Paul B]

So I sent you a question regarding your underwater filter and you saying that you have to maintain it . How ?what's involved

Stirring it up a few times a year and sucking out the detritus so it doesn't clog.

 

[Subsea]

I an asking Paul right now about that very thing . I also want to use the same as you aragonite . He was talking about having to maintain the filter which I don't understand. If you have time can you send photos of your set up?

Actually I have visited Paul and copied his concept. I do very little maintenance on the Substrate. Ocassionally, I stir top inch to Feed sponges & sea Apples.

 

[Kooma]

As to maintaining that is a big problem as I see it. I used to have a 60 with about 18 yellow African cichlids in it . They bred all the time. I cleaned the substrate every week using the old siphon tube and drill driven pump method. The water ( 3 five gallon pails ) was filthy like light brown . I lost them all to Malawi bloat because the vets here convinced the government to remove all medications off pet store shelves. When I drained and cleaned the tank the water was black needless to say I was shocked. Since our salt water tanks are full of rock my question is how do we maintained it ? As well as the fact when I did Once disturb the sand in my 30 year old as a test all sorts of critters came out as well as the I will call filth so never again. How to do it from the start I cannot think of how.
The tank is a 40 and has one fish , a clown she is as old as the tank . It is still running and is full of mushrooms until the Aiptasia appeared . So I have been fighting them for two weeks with the live inverts Berghia Nudibranchs . It is over 30 years old. It was bought with my son as a running tank so is actually well over 30 years . It runs on a Fluval Canister an Eshopps HOB skimmer , and one power head

I started my own tank about 6 years ago no parasites disease or anything related . Just cant grow certain coral at all . I do water changes on it ( about 30 gallon's ) every week or week and a half. I started with 15 supposedly easy Coral . I have four left. I added a kiwi ? tree and another pesty soft flowing coral if it is a coral and have to actually trim it back to get light to the others

So on the sand issue, grab some sand sifting inverts and let them go to work naturally turning the sand over.

For the second newer tank, it seems very under-lit. Are those prime 16 lights? What’s the other light?

 

[Freenow54]

So on the sand issue, grab some sand sifting inverts and let them go to work naturally turning the sand over.

For the second newer tank, it seems very under-lit. Are those prime 16 lights? What’s the other light?

They are both Prime HD 16 yes only 100 watts have since bought illumination combo glow and grow which are 20 watts each I thought they were more. Apparently as a combo they are higher par and more effective. I plan on using them as a filler light . Maybe will upgrade the other two. Your the first one to point that out . I had already put the lights on the back burner since originally I thought that was the culprit but have since changed my mind. I have yet to make the stands for the new lights . I have everything I need for 25 mm extruded aluminum but have yet to get at it.
As to inverts I did have some but they all seem to die off . Good point though again will take that advise thanks

 

[X-37B]

Neither is hard or better than the other if you know how to maintain a system.
I have 2 BB, ext 170 & ext 112. Also have 4 systems with sand, 50, 35, 15 and 13.
The hardest part for people with BB systems is having the patience to let it grow in.
You start like this and 2 years later you have something like this, my ext 170.

Also note BB systems will have sand overtime if you started with live rock. All the boring creatures in the rock produce plenty of it. You may not see it but its there.
Take down a BB system and you will be surprised at how much is there.

 

[Freenow54]

Neither is hard or better than the other if you know how to maintain a system.
I have 2 BB, ext 170 & ext 112. Also have 4 systems with sand, 50, 35, 15 and 13.
The hardest part for people with BB systems is having the patience to let it grow in.
You start like this and 2 years later you have something like this, my ext 170.

Also note BB systems will have sand overtime if you started with live rock. All the boring creatures in the rock produce plenty of it. You may not see it but its there.
Take down a BB system and you will be surprised at how much is there.

Could you please explain all your lighting features ? manufacturer model placement ect? It would be extremely helpful

Thanks Wally

 

[X-37B]

Could you please explain all your lighting features ? manufacturer model placement ect? It would be extremely helpful

Thanks Wally

Sure,
All systems 1hr up/down
10hrs total

Ext 170 BB
2 Photon 50's
3 Orphek uv/v 48" bars
12" off the surface
350-400 par at the top of the rockwork

Ext 112 BB Growout
1 400 watt Ushio 20K
with Lumenbrite fixture
12" off the surface
2 Meridian edge 14K bars
500 par on the rack
Halide 6hrs
Leds 12hrs

Ext 50 Sand
3 gen 5 xr15 blue
9" off the surface
AB + @ 80%
250-300 par across the system.

RS170 Sand, Nem system
24" Photon 24
250-300 par
12" off the surface

IM 15 Sand
1 Gen 5 xr15 blue
Standard mount @ 8"
200 par across the system
AB + @ 100%

13 Generic Black Sand
2 16hds on flexible mount at 9"
170-200 par on the rocks
First 4 channels at 100%
Last 3 50%

 

[Freenow54]

Sure,
All systems 1hr up/down
10hrs total

Ext 170 BB
2 Photon 50's
3 Orphek uv/v 48" bars
12" off the surface
350-400 par at the top of the rockwork

Ext 112 BB Growout
1 400 watt Ushio 20K
with Lumenbrite fixture
12" off the surface
2 Meridian edge 14K bars
500 par on the rack
Halide 6hrs
Leds 12hrs

Ext 50 Sand
3 gen 5 xr15 blue
9" off the surface
AB + @ 80%
250-300 par across the system.

RS170 Sand, Nem system
24" Photon 24
250-300 par
12" off the surface

IM 15 Sand
1 Gen 5 xr15 blue
Standard mount @ 8"
200 par across the system
AB + @ 100%

13 Generic Black Sand
2 16hds on flexible mount at 9"
170-200 par on the rocks
First 4 channels at 100%
Last 3 50%

Thanks you are making my light choice easier as I currently have 2 old Chinese knock off Primes mounted on my new Tank More Money

 

[X-37B]

Thanks you are making my light choice easier as I currently have 2 old Chinese knock off Primes mounted on my new Tank More Money

Luxdium makes replacememt pucks for the 16. I may get one to compare for $100.
Everything in this hobby just keeps increasing in price.
Just went to lfs for food.
Cubes are going for $9 a pack. They were $6 a couple months ago.
Snails were buy 5 for $3.50 a piece now $8.50 a piece no break.
Larrys and Rods are still a great value for the money.