Sulphur media

[Belgian Anthias]

So ive measured my daily food intake with just dry food. Its approximately 4.1 grams a day.

Calculate the average protein content of the food added.
The C:N ratio of the feed used will influence the nitrate production and the possible daily nitrogen overproduction.

A basic rule for determining the C:N ratio and nitrogen content of feed:
The C: N ratio of a feed is generally calculated as follows: regardless of the protein content, the carbon content of a feed is always considered to be 50%. To get the C: N ratio, one has to find the N%. This is done by dividing the protein by 6.25. For a shrimp feed with a crude protein of 21%, the N content is 21 divided by 6.25 = 3.36%. The C: N ratio of the food supply is 50 divided by 3.36 = 14.88: 1 or nearly 15: 1 .(PohYongThong2014) ref: https://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=nl:makazi:het_water:filtratie:biofloc#voedsel

A basic rule for using a BADESS: use 1% +1% media in a 120% reactor and one will be safe for 95% of mixed reef aquaria in operation. If needed, one may always add some media or use a second reactor.

If you target 0 nitrate in the effluent and try to remove 150ppm in one passage, you need at least 2% +2% media.

 

[Lasse]

A basic rule for using a BADESS: use 1% +1% media in a 120% reactor and one will be safe for 95% of mixed reef aquaria in operation. If needed, one may always add some media or use a second reactor.

Is this 1% + !% per volume or per weight? Do you mean 4.7 L sulphur + 4.7 L shells (calcium/magnesium carbonate) or 4.7 Kg sulphur and 4.5 kg shells (calcium/magnesium carbonate) ?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you think it will still neutralize the effect of the sulphur denitrator though? How could I make this work?

I do not know. The idea of dissolving calcium carbonate is not a perfect solution (it cannot eliminate the alk loss entirely), but it certainly helps with the alkalinity depletion. Dolomite will help somewhat less, but how much less, I am not sure.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Is this 1% + !% per volume or per weight? Do you mean 4.7 L sulphur + 4.7 L shells (calcium/magnesium carbonate) or 4.7 Kg sulphur and 4.5 kg shells (calcium/magnesium carbonate) ?

Sincerely Lasse

1% sulfur + 1% chalk in volume, this for easy calculations. Off coarse processes will be influenced by the specific weight and particle size of the media but we do not target 100% effectiveness. The total usable space will influence the final result but as said, using BADES we do not target 100% effectiveness and we use reactors considered to be big enough for what is intended, for having full control over the nitrogen removal rate and the desired nitrate level.
All info needed is and was available in the section BADESS of the Makazi Baharini wiki

There is no need for a reactor to make use of BADES.

I´m not sure here - but can´t it be that way that it is there is a little bit of misunderstanding here. The daily production in Cory´s aquarium is not 150 ppm. It is his value just now. If he construct a BADES reactor large enough to take his daily production plus - let us say 5 ppm more. It will take some days before his down to 0 or 4-5 ppm but that´s IMO very good.

At a level of 150 ppm the system contains +- 75 grams or 75000mg nitrate.
If there is 150ppm in the system and a "sulpur denitrator" is used targetting 0 nitrate in the effluent then 150ppm is removed in one passage true the reactor. Using a 5liter reactor the flow will be +- 32 liter daily or +-16 days to pass the system volume. But as the level descends fast in de beginning, after a few days a lot less nitrate will be removed daily and one may need a lot more days to remove most nitrate. Before the 16 days are past the reactor may not be able to lower the level anymore, depending on the daily nitrogen production; At a level of 10 ppm the reactor will remove only 320 mg or 0.64 ppm daily if the flow is not corrected to keep the reactor anoxic. At 10 ppm the system still contains 5000mg and one will need at least another 15 days , But de level descends and at 5 ppm this reactor theoretically removes 160 mg daily ( in practice it will not) for removing 2500 mg which again will take at least 15 days, and so on. How many days to reach 1ppm?

 

[Cory]

So ive got the sulphur media. Its not pellets but flakes. I think it may work better due to surface areas being greater than beads.

As to the sulphur "rolls" or "columns", i think the name doesnt accurately represent what it is. A better name would be sulphur bag. Or sulphur pouch.

From what Belgium posted in the link:

"This means that with one liter of sulfur up to 1ppm NO3-N can be removed per day in a 400 liter system."

It seems i should have enough with 5kgs of media producing approximately 1.5ppm no3 per day no? Ive got at least 3 liters of media. So i should be able to decline approximately 1.3 ppm per day no3 on a 470 liter system. Correct?

The picture is with a plastic knife for reference:

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Using a BADES biofilm reactor it is the user who decides how fast the level is going to decent. The reactor functions at high flow and the flow is not a limiting factor. It is de user wich will decide at what rate the level may decent daily by removing a bit more like the daily nitrogen overproduction. Lowering the level can be done at 1ppm a day or 2ppm a day, or more, as desired. The nitrate level will not be decisive for the removal rate as only the difference of the total nitrogen content between influent and effluent will be decisive for the export rate. The flow can be adjusted to manage the desired removal rate as desired, as 0 nitrates in the effluent or trying to keep the reactor anoxic is not a target.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

So ive got the sulphur media. Its not pellets but flakes. I think it may work better due to surface areas being greater than beads.

As to the sulphur "rolls" or "columns", i think the name doesnt accurately represent what it is. A better name would be sulphur bag. Or sulphur pouch.

From what Belgium posted in the link:

"This means that with one liter of sulfur up to 1ppm NO3-N can be removed per day in a 400 liter system."

It seems i should have enough with 5kgs of media producing approximately 1.5ppm no3 per day no? Ive got at least 3 liters of media. So i should be able to decline approximately 1.3 ppm per day no3 on a 470 liter system. Correct?

The picture is with a plastic knife for reference:

After a few months , they will look about the same.

 

[Cory]

After a few months , they will look about the same.

Do you mean the beads will turn to sulphur flakes?

 

[Cory]

This is what i got so far but I feel that if i install it like this it will plug eventually and then be hard to control. I might just put the sulphur in an sock or pouch and put it in the sump to act like a BADES "colum" or "roll" and see what happens.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

As to the sulphur "rolls" or "columns", i think the name doesnt accurately represent what it is. A better name would be sulphur bag. Or sulphur pouch.

The creators of the system who have extensively tested it in fresh water, who published the results and must be credited for the basic application, used the name "Sulphur-Packed Columns".

The Sulfur-Packed Columns ( SPC) system HwangEnCo2005) Een toepassing van BADES Ik noem de toepassing het BADES-kolommen Systeem.CMFDeHaes2018) ref: https://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=nl:badess:bades:bades-kolommen

CMF De Haes transformed and adjusted the principle for to be used in a marine aquarium and by among other using a filter cloth instead of ciliates; by which to make the rolls is made easy, used the name BADES kolommen and BADES rolletjes, BADES columns or BADES rolls, and he has registered the names and the application in marine aquaria by which the principle and practical application will always be free to use for nutrient management in marine aquaria by everybody, exempt for commercial use, this if the rules are respected.

Please follow the rules and respect the publishing rights involved; All information in the Makazi Bahrini wiki , and many other websites, may be used for personal use only, and one only may publish information present in Makazi Baharini wiki by respecting the publishing rights and the work of the author of the article containing the information by crediting and by using a link to the page where the information is made available as a reference. Respecting the rules makes it possible to continue to use by law protected information on a forum, which otherwise is only available for personal use after paying a fee or buying the rights.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

This is what i got so far but I feel that if i install it like this it will plug eventually and then be hard to control. I might just put the sulphur in an sock or pouch and put it in the sump to act like a BADES "colum" or "roll" and see what happens.

This reactor is too small for a 500l BADESS.
No filter paths?

Please follow the guidelines. Just using a filter sock in the sump will not give you any control over the removal rate! or you must be able to adjust the flow to or from the sump as desired.
The filter cloth making the roles replaces ciliates, it has a function. Also, the dimensions of the rolls have a reason.
if BADES columns are used I advise using them in a refuge, which makes managing the removal rate possible.

Just see what happens?

You can easily condition the sulfur using a bucket of old seawater; How conditioning sulfur is explained in the wiki, section BADESS.
And why not use Urea CH4N2O or NH2CONH2 which is sold as a liquid for horticultural use as urea (eg Urea30 containing 15% urea, 7.5% ammonium nitrogen and 7.5% nitrate nitrogen)? It does not contain sodium or chloride. And organic carbon is also added. ref: https://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=nl:badess:bades:geactiveerd_zwavel
Make a stock solution for easy dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Like any sort of bacterial growth surface, the sulfur surface area is the important factor, not necessarily the volume. If your particles are smaller, they will have higher surface area per volume.

 

[Cory]

The creators of the system who have extensively tested it in fresh water, who published the results and must be credited for the basic application, used the name "Sulphur-Packed Columns".

The Sulfur-Packed Columns ( SPC) system HwangEnCo2005) Een toepassing van BADES Ik noem de toepassing het BADES-kolommen Systeem.CMFDeHaes2018) ref: https://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=nl:badess:bades:bades-kolommen

CMF De Haes transformed and adjusted the principle for to be used in a marine aquarium and by among other using a filter cloth instead of ciliates; by which to make the rolls is made easy, used the name BADES kolommen and BADES rolletjes, BADES columns or BADES rolls, and he has registered the names and the application in marine aquaria by which the principle and practical application will always be free to use for nutrient management in marine aquaria by everybody, exempt for commercial use, this if the rules are respected.

Please follow the rules and respect the publishing rights involved; All information in the Makazi Bahrini wiki , and many other websites, may be used for personal use only, and one only may publish information present in Makazi Baharini wiki by respecting the publishing rights and the work of the author of the article containing the information by crediting and by using a link to the page where the information is made available as a reference. Respecting the rules makes it possible to continue to use by law protected information on a forum, which otherwise is only available for personal use after paying a fee or buying the rights.

Its not a column or roll its a felt bag with sulphur in it judging by the pictures. So please call them sulphur bags if your purpose is to spread this knowledge to aquarists. Otherwise its hard to understand and people wont consider it.

Im not putting it in a filter sock, the flow would be too fast for denitrfication to happen, i understand that.

What i did was I used a 3 inch diameter abs pipe thats 20 inches tall. I put an end cap on one side. I drilled about 20 quarter of an inch holes all around the pipe, including one in the end cap which it sits on. The top is left open to air but covered in panty hose. I then filled this with the sulphur media and put panty hose around the whole pipe so no sulphur flakes can escape into the tank. Then i put some decorative plastic rock i had around the pipe so its not an eyesore. This is in my tank now, im hoping it works passively without the need for a pump to remove no3. Its sort of like what you posted about a roll or column, but its not its my own idea.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Its not a column or roll its a felt bag with sulphur in it judging by the pictures. So please call them sulphur bags if your purpose is to spread this knowledge to aquarists. Otherwise its hard to understand and people wont consider it.

Im not putting it in a filter sock, the flow would be too fast for denitrfication to happen, i understand that.

What i did was I used a 3 inch diameter abs pipe thats 20 inches tall. I put an end cap on one side. I drilled about 20 quarter of an inch holes all around the pipe, including one in the end cap which it sits on. The top is left open to air but covered in panty hose. I then filled this with the sulphur media and put panty hose around the whole pipe so no sulphur flakes can escape into the tank. Then i put some decorative plastic rock i had around the pipe so its not an eyesore. This is in my tank now, im hoping it works passively without the need for a pump to remove no3. Its sort of like what you posted about a roll or column, but its not its my own idea.

Nice setup!?

With respect, the passive application of BADES is not your idea. The passive use of BADES in marine aquaria, filters, bags, Jaubert Systems, DSB, and all other passive use of BADES in marine aquaria and filters has been registered and has as far as I know first been published in USA more than a decade ago (DelbeekSprung2005-3 ). The active and passive use in marine aquaria, filters and reactors, in 1996 (Hignette1996). The information was made available in the Makazi Baharini wiki ( Matricaria 2007) ( CMF De Haes 2017), information of which you and I made practical use.

Respecting the work of the authors and researchers, I will use the name which they used. As we make use of there work and knowledge to our benefit it is the least we may do. In this context, you make use of BADES, maybe a BADES tube!?

The sulfur grains or flakes will be broken down and fall apart, changing the grain size.

Published BADES applications, designs and guidelines are based on many years of experience and a lot of properly executed experiments and lab tests. If basic rules are changed or adjusted one must have a very good reason and make sure it is an improvement before using the new design or application of BADES in a live support system.

BADES bags may work for passively exporting nitrogen if the basic rules are followed, one will NOT have any control over the nitrogen removal rate.

For passive use, your design is not at all perfect and you risk problems. A tube of 7.5 cm diameter? I think you did not read the references used in the article by CMF De Haes (CMF de Haes2016-2018) !

As published, if BADES columns are used the water flows around the columns, not true them. The diameter and the water exchange area ( ciliates) is an important factor for this application.
For passive use, if thick layers of sulfur are used in filters or aquaria it is advised to pass the water true the media to prevent uncontrollable anoxic conditions.
Using BADES reactors an MBR is used.

Using a refuge for all BADES applications not needing a reactor is advised, by which an easy manageable BADES System may be created. A sump is a refuge if the flow can be managed in the function of the targetted processes.

All BADES info available in the Makzi Baharini wiki is based on proper research and long term experiments of which the results and conclusions were published and may be consulted. Articles and references are published all rights reserved.

I hope your experiment will turn out fine.

We have 13 years of experience studying BADES and I only can advise testing this first using a bucket, not connected to the system.

The sulfur and BADES can be activated before being used in the system, sulfur can be conditioned for BADES using a bucket of water.

 

[SeaDweller]

Is it effective or just a little?

I use a sulfur DN for my acro only tank, and it’s super effective. I have to adjust for 0.3 dKh daily with baking soda. It depletes Alk pretty quickly. Wouldn’t want to run a tank without it.

 

[Cory]

Nice setup!?

With respect, the passive application of BADES is not your idea. The passive use of BADES in marine aquaria, filters, bags, Jaubert Systems, DSB, and all other passive use of BADES in marine aquaria and filters has been registered and has as far as I know first been published in USA more than a decade ago (DelbeekSprung2005-3 ). The active and passive use in marine aquaria, filters and reactors, in 1996 (Hignette1996). The information was made available in the Makazi Baharini wiki ( Matricaria 2007) ( CMF De Haes 2017), information of which you and I made practical use.

Respecting the work of the authors and researchers, I will use the name which they used. As we make use of there work and knowledge to our benefit it is the least we may do. In this context, you make use of BADES, maybe a BADES tube!?

The sulfur grains or flakes will be broken down and fall apart, changing the grain size.

Published BADES applications, designs and guidelines are based on many years of experience and a lot of properly executed experiments and lab tests. If basic rules are changed or adjusted one must have a very good reason and make sure it is an improvement before using the new design or application of BADES in a live support system.

BADES bags may work for passively exporting nitrogen if the basic rules are followed, one will NOT have any control over the nitrogen removal rate.

For passive use, your design is not at all perfect and you risk problems. A tube of 7.5 cm diameter? I think you did not read the references used in the article by CMF De Haes (CMF de Haes2016-2018) !

As published, if BADES columns are used the water flows around the columns, not true them. The diameter and the water exchange area ( ciliates) is an important factor for this application.
For passive use, if thick layers of sulfur are used in filters or aquaria it is advised to pass the water true the media to prevent uncontrollable anoxic conditions.
Using BADES reactors an MBR is used.

Using a refuge for all BADES applications not needing a reactor is advised, by which an easy manageable BADES System may be created. A sump is a refuge if the flow can be managed in the function of the targetted processes.

All BADES info available in the Makzi Baharini wiki is based on proper research and long term experiments of which the results and conclusions were published and may be consulted. Articles and references are published all rights reserved.

I hope your experiment will turn out fine.

We have 13 years of experience studying BADES and I only can advise testing this first using a bucket, not connected to the system.

The sulfur and BADES can be activated before being used in the system, sulfur can be conditioned for BADES using a bucket of water.

Whats the purpose of the cilia? Just to slow the flow? I have pantyhose lining it, but its not as thick as felt. But im assuming the pipe will help diffuse like felt material would have.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I use a sulfur DN for my acro only tank, and it’s super effective. I have to adjust for 0.3 dKh daily with baking soda. It depletes Alk pretty quickly. Wouldn’t want to run a tank without it.

What about calcium?
What is the sulfur/chalk ratio used? Is the sulfur media mixed with the sulfur, is the chalk in the same reactor on top of the sulfur or is the chalk in the following reactor connected in series? The substrate used makes a big difference in total alkalinity consumption in the system water and in calcium production.
Any idea about the DN nitrogen removal rate? Influent x daily flow?
Any idea about alkalinity consumption before using the DN?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

if an anoxic kept DN is used targeting 0 nitrate in the effluent, the reactions taking place in the reactor are hard to predict, some nitrogen may be exported making use of HS, HS produced by sulfate reduction, anaerobic remineralization, or HS will be removed aerobically after leaving the reactor. Ammonia will be produced in the reactor which will be reused when leaving the reactor.
Depending on pH in the reactor HS and H2S may be produced, when released in the aquarium +-95% (pH8.2) of H2S may turn into HS releasing H+. HS + oxygen = hydrogen sulphate > sulfuric acid. If H2S is smelled leaving the reactor, that should be no direct problem for the aquarium system, the water flow of such DN is very low, but as the effluent may affect total alkalinity, it will influence the system with everything it contains.
Having degassing ability on top of the DN may not only release N2 by wich anoxic DN users may be warned in time.
Using a BADES System one has not to worry much about all that. ref: https://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=nl:badess:theorie:de_neveneffecten#waterstofsulfide

 

[ryanuy]

Hi! Thinking of trying this out. Can i just place the right amount of sulfur in a high flow area in my sump? Would that work well enough?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Hi! Thinking of trying this out. Can I just place the right amount of sulfur in a high flow area in my sump? Would that work well enough?

You can!
What do you mean with well enough? Adding some sulfur will increase the present nitrogen removal rate. What is the intention?
is it the intention just to export some nitrogen or do you want to have full control over the nitrogen removal rate in the system or and the nitrate level?
Is it the intention also to increase and manage the carrying capacity of the system? Sulfur and BADES can be used for many different applications.
Fish only tank or a reef tank? LNS or mixed reef? HiHo?