Sulphur denitrator

[56longroof]

Im giving up on a algea reactor for nitrate reduction. I just can't get cheato to grow at all. So Im considering going to a Sulphur denitrator to help control nitrates. Right now my nitrates hover around 20 with carbon dosing. My goal is 10 without dosing carbon. Since Im pretty much mentally handicapped when it comes to "newer" tech does anyone have any experience, tips,or tricks? Plus is my goal realistic?

 

[EnterName]

I know this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it still might help you:

To assimilate nitrate (NO₃) corals, algae, and bacteria reduce it back to ammonia (NH₃) first. This requires enzymes (namely nitrate reductase and nitrite reductase) which are based on trace elements (It should be molybdenum (Mo), and iron (Fe) or copper (Cu) depending on enzyme and algae/bacteria/...).
Have you tried providing these trace elements in small amounts regularly/daily to help ensure these trace elements are not a limiting factor?

Another possibility would be a phosphate (PO₄) limitation which would stall carbon and nitrogen uptake. Carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus are taken up in certain ratios to each other and if one of those elements is missing, it limits the uptake. That's why carbon dosing is often useful as it fixes a carbon limitation which appears to be common in reef tanks.

 

[56longroof]

I know this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it still might help you:

To assimilate nitrate (NO₃) corals, algae, and bacteria reduce it back to ammonia (NH₃) first. This requires enzymes (namely nitrate reductase and nitrite reductase) which are based on trace elements (It should be molybdenum (Mo), and iron (Fe) or copper (Cu) depending on enzyme and algae/bacteria/...).
Have you tried providing these trace elements in small amounts regularly/daily to help ensure these trace elements are not a limiting factor?

Another possibility would be a phosphate (PO₄) limitation which would stall carbon and nitrogen uptake. Carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus are taken up in certain ratios to each other and if one of those elements is missing, it limits the uptake. That's why carbon dosing is often useful as it fixes a carbon limitation which appears to be common in reef tanks.

I dose AFR and Cheato grow. I think(?) those should cover those elements.

 

[JGT]

Have you tried adding more carbon to lower your no3? 20 to 10 isn’t far off.

 

[JumboShrimp]

You can use the "search" feature here on R2R and track my journey with an expensive Korallin Bio-Denitrator and see why I could never find success getting it dialed in. (In fact I still have another one new in the box which I never attempted on my second 150-gallon tank.) Possibly you will have better success where I failed-- but it could make an interesting read, along with other searches here. Best wishes.

 

[EnterName]

I dose AFR and Cheato grow. I think(?) those should cover those elements.

It doesn't contain copper but that's probably fine, I'm not sure copper is required if iron is present. Iron is probably the element used by plants to create the reductase enzymes.

Then I would look into your phosphate levels next. If those are elevated as well the only thing I can suggest is the typical water changes, improving water flow, adding copepods for breaking down detritus, wetter skimming, etc.

 

[56longroof]

Have you tried adding more carbon to lower your no3? 20 to 10 isn’t far off.

Im already up to 300 mls of vinegar. The excess slime from all the bacteria is becoming a pain. The 20 is also with alot larger water change than I want to do weekly.

 

[Tritie]

Look up Donovan's poor man denitrator. Has worked wonders for me. No bacterial slime in DT because it happens in the reactor. I also had issues with chaeto and discovered the thinner stranded species grow much better. For years, I had the thick stranded stuff and it did nothing. Now I have a medium and angel hair variety. It grows much better, but I think the denitrator is the biggest factor. My nitrates have been 9-12ppm for over a month. I used to have nitrates that would skyrocket by 20ppm per day with hardly any fish and just regular feeding. I could not keep phos. I intentionally dosed 0.8ppms several times and ended up with 0 in 3 days. But eventually even adding small amounts trigger a turf algae bloom. My phos is undetectable for the most part, but there's still enough that I can carbon dose into the denitrator and keep nitrates around 10ppm. Turf has really slowed down. 75 gallon system, 4ml vodka per day.

 

[56longroof]

It doesn't contain copper but that's probably fine, I'm not sure copper is required if iron is present. Iron is probably the element used by plants to create the reductase enzymes.

Then I would look into your phosphate levels next. If those are elevated as well the only thing I can suggest is the typical water changes, improving water flow, adding copepods for breaking down detritus, wetter skimming, etc.

I run gfo to keep phosphate at .1. If it raises above that I change it out. I also skim wet. I usually have to clean it out every couple days.

 

[56longroof]

Look up Donovan's poor man denitrator. Has worked wonders for me. No bacterial slime in DT because it happens in the reactor. I also had issues with chaeto and discovered the thinner stranded species grow much better. For years, I had the thick stranded stuff and it did nothing. Now I have a medium and angel hair variety. It grows much better, but I think the denitrator is the biggest factor. My nitrates have been 9-12ppm for over a month. I used to have nitrates that would skyrocket by 20ppm per day with hardly any fish and just regular feeding. I could not keep phos. I intentionally dosed 0.8ppms several times and ended up with 0 in 3 days. But eventually even adding small amounts trigger a turf algae bloom. My phos is undetectable for the most part, but there's still enough that I can carbon dose into the denitrator and keep nitrates around 10ppm. Turf has really slowed down. 75 gallon system, 4ml vodka per day.

Where did you get the different algea?

 

[JGT]

Im already up to 300 mls of vinegar. The excess slime from all the bacteria is becoming a pain. The 20 is also with alot larger water change than I want to do weekly.

Yikes! That’s a lot. Do you spread it out over 24 hours?

 

[Tritie]

It was tough. Being in Canada makes it difficult, but Algae Barn sells it. I did buy from them, but it was winter and got too cold in transit. They were really great about replacing/refunding me. What's great about their chaeto is that it is clean. I then managed to get Angel hair from Dark Rooster (user name) in Toronto and got the medium stranded one from The Coral Reef Shop in Burlington, Ontario. The angel hair ALMOST looks like hair algae, but it stays in the typical chaeto clump (doesn't attach to rocks, etc) and when you look closely at the strands, it's clearly chaeto.

 

[56longroof]

Yikes! That’s a lot. Do you spread it out over 24 hours?

I dose it 50 ml at a time throughout the day during the photo period.

 

[JGT]

I dose it 50 ml at a time throughout the day during the photo period.

IME, dosing lanthanum for PO4 reduction and carbon dosing (into a Donovan Nitrate Destroyer) for NO3 reduction works much better and results in more consistency if smaller amounts are dosed over a 24 hr period.

 

[56longroof]

IME, dosing lanthanum for PO4 reduction and carbon dosing (into a Donovan Nitrate Destroyer) for NO3 reduction works much better and results in more consistency if smaller amounts are dosed over a 24 hr period.

Im definitely interested in the Donovan. I honestly can't believe Im just now learning about it.

 

[JGT]

Im definitely interested in the Donovan. I honestly can't believe Im just now learning about it.

Works like a charm. Much less expensive than a sulfur denitrator as well. For my 250 gallon I dose 25ml and it lowers and maintains my NO3 from around 40 to 15. Easy to adjust as well. Def check it out. Pic of mine.

 

[Tritie]

I was too paranoid to have mine outside the sump. Was too concerned about leaks. I needed taller towers so I added additional height with bulkheads (? I think that's what they are called?). If the whole tower was one piece, I'd never get the thing in or out again. My base looks the same as JGT'S but I did have to cut off some of centre part of the T connector or it wouldn't fit in my sump. I think I have mostly reef rock in there, but can't quite remember. I've changed it a couple times.

 

[56longroof]

Works like a charm. Much less expensive than a sulfur denitrator as well. For my 250 gallon I dose 25ml and it lowers and maintains my NO3 from around 40 to 15. Easy to adjust as well. Def check it out. Pic of mine.

What size pump did you use?

 

[JGT]

What size pump did you use?

I had a small Sicce Syncra 1.5 from a reactor that I didn’t use anymore. You don’t need much. Just enough to push the water through the aerobic tube into the anaerobic tube and back into the sump.

 

[56longroof]

I had a small Sicce Syncra 1.5 from a reactor that I didn’t use anymore. You don’t need much. Just enough to push the water through the aerobic tube into the anaerobic tube and back into the sump.

What media did you use in it? Im going off this diagram but some of the things I can't find. The only bio rings I can find are ceramic. Im assuming that will be fine but the pic only mentions ceramic on the bottom.