Sump question

[cruzersmith]

I want to go from hob aio filter to a sump to accommodate a roller mat. A 10 gallon tank is all I can fit under the stand. I currently do a 3 gallon awc but just to do a 2 gallon change I would have to use 6” high baffels and fill sump to 2 1/2” above at 8 1/2” to leave enough space for display tank water to backfill if return pump is off. Is this how it’s usually done? Or do you do use higher baffels and not do very big water changes from the sump?

 

[Fish Fan]

I believe that most who set up an Auto Water Change system pull the saltwater from a reservoir that is separate from the sump.

If you're looking for a baffle kit for your 10 gallon, I highly recommend looking at the kits from Marine Biosystems on eBay, here's an example, and he can do custom work too if you contact him. I think this is the "best value" in an acrylic sump kit, even compared to Jack's Racks, FijiCube, and others.
Marine Biosystems 10 Gallon Sump Kit on eBay

Good luck!

 

[cruzersmith]

You lost me here. People with a sump have a separate reservoir that has display water in it so removing water from it takes water out of the display tank??

 

[sgdnycct]

I want to go from hob aio filter to a sump to accommodate a roller mat. A 10 gallon tank is all I can fit under the stand. I currently do a 3 gallon awc but just to do a 2 gallon change I would have to use 6” high baffels and fill sump to 2 1/2” above at 8 1/2” to leave enough space for display tank water to backfill if return pump is off. Is this how it’s usually done? Or do you do use higher baffels and not do very big water changes from the sump?

If I’m understanding the problem, you are saying that turning off the return pump would overflow the sump?

If I’m right, then I think there’s a bigger issue here. The system needs to be set up so the sump never overflows if the return is turned off. I’d start there then the water change issue is fixed too.

 

[Fish Fan]

You lost me here. People with a sump have a separate reservoir that has display water in it so removing water from it takes water out of the display tank??

I'm not sure I'm following your question, but to my knowledge most sumps do not hold water that is used for an auto water change system. Sumps typically hold recirculating tank water and gear. Sometimes, they include a small, separate section to hold fresh water to feed an Auto Top Off system. Could you custom make a sump that included a reservoir for new saltwater to be used by your auto water change system? Sure. But it's not typically done, at least not to my knowledge. Usually, people who set up AWC systems draw new saltwater from a container that is separate from the sump

 

[cruzersmith]

No that’s not what I’m saying. You leave room in the sump so if the pump fails or power fails or whatever the display tank will continue to send water back to the sump until the level in the tank is below the level of the weir. This is how it all works.

 

[cruzersmith]

Sorry but what you think does not solve the issue. I can only remove water from the sump for a water change until the sump water level reaches the height of the baffels. Each gallon of water in a 10 gallon tank is 1 1/4” in height. So each gallon of water removed would have to be 1 1/4” above the baffels except for whatever sump reservoir your emptying pump is in.

 

[Fish Fan]

No that’s not what I’m saying. You leave room in the sump so if the pump fails or power fails or whatever the display tank will continue to send water back to the sump until the level in the tank is below the level of the weir. This is how it all works.

Yes, that is true, but I thought your original post had a question about setting up an AWC system. Maybe I misunderstood

 

[Fish Fan]

#reefsquad

Can anyone help the OP with their question?

 

[Rocks reef]

Sorry but what you think does not solve the issue. I can only remove water from the sump for a water change until the sump water level reaches the height of the baffels. Each gallon of water in a 10 gallon tank is 1 1/4” in height. So each gallon of water removed would have to be 1 1/4” above the baffels except for whatever sump reservoir your emptying pump is in.

I’m trying to figure out your question.
First, why can you only remove water from the sump to do a water change? Are you talking about an AWC?
You install check valves on your return lines to prevent backfill if needed

 

[cruzersmith]

I am under the impression that people with sumps do awc by removing water from the sump. To remove water from the display tank is done manually. The awc is done by placing a drain pump in the sump with either high and low floats or water level sensors with a controller. My question is do sump users fill their sumps high above the baffels to get a larger water change or do small water changes because the baffels limit how much water you can remove from a sump. Not concerned about needing check valves.

 

[Fish Fan]

I am under the impression that people with sumps do awc by removing water from the sump. To remove water from the display tank is done manually. The awc is done by placing a drain pump in the sump with either high and low floats or water level sensors with a controller. My question is do sump users fill their sumps high above the baffels to get a larger water change or do small water changes because the baffels limit how much water you can remove from a sump. Not concerned about needing check valves.

If you have an AWC system, do small water changes so you don't pull the water lower than the baffles. Running the sump much higher than the baffles would make the baffles less effective.

 

[tbrown]

Turn the return pump off, do a water change either from the display or the sump, refill into the sump and turn the return pump on.

That's how I do my water changes with a sump.

 

[Red_Beard]

Or just do more frequent smaller awcs. But the tallest and widest return pump chamber would give you the biggest volume possible without automating the return pump to turn off or anything.

 

[cruzersmith]

Turn the return pump off, do a water change either from the display or the sump, refill into the sump and turn the return pump on.

That's how I do my water changes with a sump.

That unfortunately won’t work with the hydros ato/awc program as when you shut off the return pump the sump level will rise higher than the level when the pump is running which will be higher than the ato sensor. You will then drain the sump to the low awc sensor, but when it refills it will stop at the ato level sensor and not refill to the level the sump was at when the awc started.

 

[cruzersmith]

Or just do more frequent smaller awcs. But the tallest and widest return pump chamber would give you the biggest volume possible without automating the return pump to turn off or anything.

The return pump chamber is usually the smallest chamber in the sump as it only needs room for the pump. I’ve always felt that doing more smaller water changes are not as effective as a single larger one as you remove part of the new water you put in with the old water with each small change as opposed to just doing the one large change of the same total as all the small ones.

 

[grumpy-crab]

Im confused... awc stand for automatic water change which is completely hands off and requires a dedicated system which would not fit of you only have room for a 10g sump. You could put in a valve for the return pump to use the return pump to remove the water for the water change. Most everyone with a sump shuts the pump off and allows the display tank to drain to the sump for water changes

 

[Red_Beard]

The return pump chamber is usually the smallest chamber in the sump as it only needs room for the pump. I’ve always felt that doing more smaller water changes are not as effective as a single larger one as you remove part of the new water you put in with the old water with each small change as opposed to just doing the one large change of the same total as all the small ones.

The return chamber is the only one to be affected by a change in volume. A larger return chamber would facilitate a larger volume of water you could remove without cavitating the pump.

If you make your baffles out of a permeable material, essentially the whole sump will be a return chamber.

 

[tbrown]

@cruzersmith it would be helpful if you give all of the information that we need to answer your questions.

So far, every answer that has been given has come with a "that won't work because..." And then a little more information is given.

So what is the question you're asking? You want to use a Hydros AWC in a 10 gallon sump without turning off the return pump but you have to leave enough headspace in the sump in case the return pump shuts off in a power outage or something?

My recommendation, shut the return pump off with the AWC sensor set at the OFF height, perform the AWC, turn the return pump back on.

 

[cruzersmith]

Im confused... awc stand for automatic water change which is completely hands off and requires a dedicated system which would not fit of you only have room for a 10g sump. You could put in a valve for the return pump to use the return pump to remove the water for the water change. Most everyone with a sump shuts the pump off and allows the display tank to drain to the sump for water changes

As in my other post I have a hydros ato/awc program. I have a 4 gallon+ hob aio type filter that I can do a 3 gallon water change on my 37 gallon tank. I want to use a roller mat filter but can’t use any made on this hob aio filter so need a sump. Even though going to 10 gallons the difference is in the height my hob is 15” tall and removing 3 gallons of water while leaving the return pump running only lowers the tank water a couple inches. Like I said earlier to take 3 gallons of water out of a 10 gallon tank means lowering the water level 3 3/4” which is too much with the average baffels. I might be able to separate the ato and awc in the hydros program and be able to do an awc after shutting off the return pump. I just don’t know. The ato/awc preprogrammed in hydros works well and would work in the sump, it just wouldn’t be able to do as large an amount.