Switched to Fritz RPM salt

[rck329]

Just got my first box so I'll through my results into the ring:

1.025 (on freshly calibrated refractometer to 1.026 solution)

Ca - 450
Alk - 9.1
Mg - 1560

All on a new Red Sea test kit.

Lot number is 29948

 

[saltyhog]

I've never gotten an Alk that high but the other numbers are very close to what I get with it.

I have not dosed magnesium a single time since switching to Fritz. My magnesium still runs 1450 .

 

[pdiehm]

Whats the proper way to mix Fritz? I mix in 68-70F water to 35ppt and heat.

But I just made 10g adding 1c every 10 minutes and came out at 7.8/475 calcium. I am certain I am doing something wrong.

So asking what the best way to mix it is, in order to get 8.5/420 which is something I have never gotten?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Whats the proper way to mix Fritz? I mix in 68-70F water to 35ppt and heat.

But I just made 10g adding 1c every 10 minutes and came out at 7.8/475 calcium. I am certain I am doing something wrong.

So asking what the best way to mix it is, in order to get 8.5/420 which is something I have never gotten?

You're are measuring the salt, but are you measuring the salinity? And what are you using to measure salinity?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Whats the proper way to mix Fritz? I mix in 68-70F water to 35ppt and heat.

But I just made 10g adding 1c every 10 minutes and came out at 7.8/475 calcium. I am certain I am doing something wrong.

So asking what the best way to mix it is, in order to get 8.5/420 which is something I have never gotten?

Also make sure you've mixed the bag up. What are you using for test kits?

 

[rkpetersen]

OK, I've been going around with salts a bit lately myself. Was using RPM. Then tried Reef Crystals. Recently decided to switch back to RPM. These were the chemistry results when I tested it on 9/30/17:

Ca 471
Alk 7.6
Mg 1410
K 410
P 0
NO3 .25

I also sent identical samples to Triton and ATI for spectroscopy:

Ca 514 480
Alk -- 5.5 (ATI provides an alk measurement, Triton does not)
Mg 1457 1451
K 417 383
P 3 0
NO3 -- .5 (ATI also provides this, Triton does not)

Note in particular the low alk. I did not expect or care for this. I am looking to decrease my 2 part dosing and part of that strategy will be using a salt with decent alk.

Also, both labs measured considerable excess Manganese in the RPM mix, at 136 and 100 ppb (normal level 2). However, 1. I'm not sure this level means anything physiologically, and 2. I'm starting to think that most salt mixes have elevated levels of some usually unmeasured element or another. The last box of Reef Crystals I was using, for example, mixed up to lithium levels measured as high as 940 ppb (normal level 200). Again, the significance of these excesses, or whether they are even present from batch to batch, is unclear.

Anyway, that RPM wasn't going to work for me, so I switched again, to Red Sea Coral Pro. I noticed immediately how fast it mixed up to clarity without residue on the bottom. First set of measurements on 10/4/17:

Ca 421
Alk 12.0
Mg 1350
K 360
P 0
NO3 <.25

Love that alk. Also that the K is not so high. Coral Pro also comes with a link to a spectroscopic analysis of your specific batch. I will probably stick with this for awhile.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I guess I lucked out with my box...

 

[pdiehm]

You're are measuring the salt, but are you measuring the salinity? And what are you using to measure salinity?

Milwaukee digital. Working at 35ppt.

Also make sure you've mixed the bag up. What are you using for test kits?

Hanna dKh for alkalinity
Red Sea pro for calcium (broke out salifert and got same result)

 

[reeferfoxx]

Milwaukee digital. Working at 35ppt.



Hanna dKh for alkalinity
Red Sea pro for calcium (broke out salifert and got same result)

Well, I think you are mixing it right. You are doing the same as me. Mix at 69-73 deg let it clear then heat to 78(or w/e you have it at). I would try mixing the bag or bags first and if you get the same result, I think Fritz needs to know. This is salt is getting popular but the QC is getting worse. I'm torn because of this.

 

[pdiehm]

Well, I think you are mixing it right. You are doing the same as me. Mix at 69-73 deg let it clear then heat to 78(or w/e you have it at). I would try mixing the bag or bags first and if you get the same result, I think Fritz needs to know. This is salt is getting popular but the QC is getting worse. I'm torn because of this.

That's what I have not been doing is mixing up the bag. I am always afraid it will spill. That's why I would love to put it in a bucket and roll around prior to using.

The price fits my wallet...I could spend 10 more and use Red Sea but I also get 30 less gallons out of it as well.

 

[reeferfoxx]

That's what I have not been doing is mixing up the bag. I am always afraid it will spill. That's why I would love to put it in a bucket and roll around prior to using.

The price fits my wallet...I could spend 10 more and use Red Sea but I also get 30 less gallons out of it as well.

If you tie a knot or use a zip tie to seal it, you can roll it around on carpet or a swept floor. That is what I do at least. Just make sure there is enough air or space for the salt to roll around in.

 

[Sabellafella]

Whats the proper way to mix Fritz? I mix in 68-70F water to 35ppt and heat.

But I just made 10g adding 1c every 10 minutes and came out at 7.8/475 calcium. I am certain I am doing something wrong.

So asking what the best way to mix it is, in order to get 8.5/420 which is something I have never gotten?

Current box of fritz i got 8.0 for 460. Could also be your test kit.

 

[pdiehm]

If you tie a knot or use a zip tie to seal it, you can roll it around on carpet or a swept floor. That is what I do at least. Just make sure there is enough air or space for the salt to roll around in.

Yeah will try that with this new box. If that doesn't work, will probably go to Red Sea. I want no part of instant ocean. My mixing barrel and my pump is clean. Want it to stay that way.

 

[pdiehm]

Current box of fritz i got 8.0 for 460. Could also be your test kit.

Not terribly far off from what I got.

 

[Shawn Hale]

Hello All,

I am sorry that I am not on here more often as I see there is a build of questions Id like to try and address before Dinner where my wife will kill me if I miss or have my head stuck in my phone. For that reason this will be full of grammatical errors! I can continue to respond throughout the week. First Id like to start off with our QC process which has only increased since we began producing this Salt 3 years ago. We run a 2000 lb batch (38 Boxes) and we test the 1st and 20th boxes of the lot before releasing it into inventory. We have in house ICP and MP but do not utilize ICP for every test currently but spot check for consistency of Lab Grade test kits. We are considering this but this process would increase the price of a salt we are trying to keep low for our dealers, public aquariums and users. If parameters fall outside of our ranges then we fail the batch and use it in Turbo Start production. We also keep a retained sample from that batch for 3 years. We have received a few complaints this year about Low Alk, High Cal, or High Mag. We have brought back 27 samples to date to test so that we can verify these issues. Unfortunately not one instance have we received a sample that didn't perform close to original specs and within parameters. This has been disappointing as I would like to verify an instance so I could address it with our team in production or the team in the lab. For a batch to come out incorrect it would not only have to be made outside of our operating procedures in the Production Center but would also have to be incorrectly QC'd on both batches. As rare as that could be we never want to ignore any concerns or push it off on others (we do however have to ask many questions). The whole reason I joined Fritz was to make awesome products for my friends in the industry I love.

Throughout addressing the concerns this year I have learned many reasons why we might be getting our results and a customer might get something that varies from that. To be transparent though our complaint rate is .002 percent of boxes sold. This doesn't mean those instances aren't important but I wanted to show the community that these instances are rare and a bit louder than a customer who is getting perfect results as there isn't much need to report that to me or others most times. Here is what I have learned from working closely with customers so far (I am sorry if I haven't had the chance to work with some of you):

1) Results can be effected by proper calibration- Sometimes users might use RODI water instead of Calibration Fluid, this can effect your refractometers and cause you to be lower or higher in salinity. This will in return effect your parameters. If your too low than it just reads low on most parameters if your too high than it can cause precipitation and reduction of parameters

2) Tempature can also effect Salinity readings and precipitation therefore effecting the stability of parameters

3) Calcium Carbonate residue in mixing barrels can cause reduction in Alkalinity when mixing over time

4) We have seen reduction in Alkalinity as people mix for long periods of time, most of these cases are when using a mixing technique that constantly brings in Oxygen and CO2 into the mix. We are currently researching this but my hypothesis is that this CO2 effects PH and causes the available Sodium Bicarbonate to buffer Alkalinity less than during tests in our laboratory.

5) Some people have suggested rolling around your Bags or Buckets to reduce stratification of raw materials. I actually don't believe this is needed as we have brought back in samples from New York, Florida, Seattle, California, etc and still have yet to see a difference in the two initial tests and the new test performed after the sample has gone around the country. We also use a uniform particle size grinder to prevent such stratification

6) RODI - I did receive one complaint this year saying that our Alk was at 11.5 - This person unfortunately let the world know about it as well. There wasn't much room to debate either. Turns out the user was using Well Water instead of RODI. The Well Water had a Alkalinity of 3dkh. 11.5 - 3 = 8.5 DKH. Well within range. It is very important you test your RODI water occasionally when parameters seem off. Minerals from high TDS water can contribute to other high readings as well.

7) Test Kits- It is very important that you are using a trusted Test Kit and that you follow the instructions closely. We have had numerous Facebook posts made this year where someone is reading the test wrong or performing the test incorrectly. Unfortunately most people just read the first page of the post and not the end of a 400 comment thread to see how it turned out.

I want to be clear that I personally value each customer that uses our products. From the 12gallon Nano to Dealers and Public Aquariums. All our very important to me and our team and we would love to help. Fritz Aquatics is also not above reproach, every company can make a mistake and listening to our customers is how we can detect them and correct them. Listening to our users is also how we have developed the salt over time to fit closer into the needs of our users. Without feedback we would still be at square one. Which I remember very well. Here are some of the changes we have made this year:

1) Increase Potassium from 360 to 400ppm
2) Decrease Calcium target from 450 to 420 - There is still a range in dry salt to be considered. New range is 400-440
3) Decrease Magnesium target from 1450 to 1350 - Range is 1300-1400. We had previously target 1450 with a range from 1400-1500 to try and help buffer your aquariums and save the user money. Which I appreciated as I once could barely afford a Double Cheeseburger but still kept my 55 Gallon Reef
4) Lowered target Boron from 6.8ppm to 5ppm - Boron can build in a system and levels over 10ppm are undesirable and cause loss in colors from my understanding. Many manufactures offer Boron in supplements however we hoped to just keep a level slightly over NSW to replenish the system.

These aren't major changes to the mix but we feel they will help with consistency. My previous goal was to keep parameters high except Alk to replenish your system but through feedback have seen that its more important to keep Ionic Balance for stability of the salt throughout the mixing process. Its important to understand that we firmly believe in the product we have produced all year as complaints again are .002% of the boxes sold. However, listening to our customers and making slight changes to perfect the product is how we will stay as what I feel is the best salt on the market. If I didn't feel that way then I wouldn't work for Fritz Industries where they have serviced the Aquatics industry for over 45 years. The first time I walked into the many facilities at Fritz Industries my immediate thought was "What could an industry hobbyist that has worked in aquarium stores for 12 years do with all this available technology, state of the art equipment, capacity, research team and years of servicing the industry?" What could we turn this into by listening to our customers? For years working at the dealer as a hobbyist it seamed there was such a disconnect in products available vs. what we wanted as hobbyist. This was my opportunity to impact that. Yes we service many industries but it doesn't take anything away from the quality of our many Microbiologist, BioChemists, and PHD Scientist on staff. Many times it yields a unique approach to innovation. Also we have a separate team dedicated to Fritz Aquatics in Production, Research and Development, Customer Service, Management and Shipping. We are working everyday to improve the products in our industry and to innovate new ones. Please please reach out to me if you have any concerns as I truly do care my friends. [email protected]

Sincerest Regards

Shawn

 

[pdiehm]

Shawn,

Thanks. My process is detailed above at some point.

I love how fast fritz mixes up. The price fits my wallet.

As for calibrating the Milwaukee, the manufacturer, they specifically State to use rodi, zero it out and then test.

I spoke to Andy today and advised to do 2c at one time, wait 15 minutes, add another 2 cups (or finish the process). I am getting ready to make a test batch of 5g. Will report the test findings.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Some people have suggested rolling around your Bags or Buckets to reduce stratification of raw materials. I actually don't believe this is needed

I beg to differ on this. My first box had parameters all over the place. It wasn't until I mixed the bag for about 10 minutes that the parameters became almost spot on to specs.

 

[BoomCorals]

My last few boxes were way off from previous so I will have to stop using fritz. I go through one to two boxes a month and had been using fritz the past six months. Nothing has changed in my mixing. I use RODI. Mix for 30-40 minutes max.

Latest numbers using same salifert kits I've been using, mag 1500+, ca 500, alk 10.5. This is a drastic change from 1450, 450, and 8.5 I was getting.

 

[Shawn Hale]

I beg to differ on this. My first box had parameters all over the place. It wasn't until I mixed the bag for about 10 minutes that the parameters became almost spot on to specs.

Hmm.. this is interesting.. It directly contradicts our results when bringing samples back but I am open to talking about and understanding any experience. Lets talk more

 

[reeferfoxx]

Hmm.. this is interesting.. It directly contradicts our results when bringing samples back but I am open to talking about and understanding any experience. Lets talk more

It has to vary. I purchased my box from an LFS that probably kept the box for awhile or at least weren't selling much. Not to say it wasn't a seller but often times folks stick to other brands. That in mind, if the shop had rearranged the boxes around then letting it settle, elements could have separated. If I gave you the batch number, you could probably date it for me?